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Redistributing core load in Logic
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| meriter |
Been hitting a brick wall with this current project, was wondering if anyone knew a way around this. I found this article http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161.
I think what the sadistic author is trying to say in human language is that if you route the effects of a software instrument to a separate bus it'll distribute the workload across two cores instead of one. 1 channel strip, one core. That makes sense.
The problem I'm running into here is that there is one mastering plugin that's overloading one core, thing is it's choosing to process on a core that already has a fair amount of activity on it, so it's crapping out instead of defaulting to a core that's barely doing anything. I can look at the CPU meter and see that core 2 for instance barely has any activity, but core 4 is at about 50% capacity. Instead of choosing the core with the least activity, it chooses the core with the most activity and then overloads as a result. Any way to fix this?
The project I'm working on has several tracks of 96/24 audio, and I think 5 separate instances of Battery. But I have all of the Battery tracks frozen along with any audio tracks that are using processor intensive plugins. It's stripped down to the bare minimum with buffer setting at max. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
Been hitting a brick wall with this current project, was wondering if anyone knew a way around this. I found this article http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161.
I think what the sadistic author is trying to say in human language is that if you route the effects of a software instrument to a separate bus it'll distribute the workload across two cores instead of one. 1 channel strip, one core. That makes sense.
The problem I'm running into here is that there is one mastering plugin that's overloading one core, thing is it's choosing to process on a core that already has a fair amount of activity on it, so it's crapping out instead of defaulting to a core that's barely doing anything. I can look at the CPU meter and see that core 2 for instance barely has any activity, but core 4 is at about 50% capacity. Instead of choosing the core with the least activity, it chooses the core with the most activity and then overloads as a result. Any way to fix this?
The project I'm working on has several tracks of 96/24 audio, and I think 5 separate instances of Battery. But I have all of the Battery tracks frozen along with any audio tracks that are using processor intensive plugins. It's stripped down to the bare minimum with buffer setting at max. |
First a few questions:
1, What mac do you have and what version of OSX?
2, Are you in 32bit or 64bit mode?
3, What mastering plugin are you talking about?
4, Why 5 instances of battery?
5, What is your normal routing method - are you all individual tracks or are there already auxes/groups?
6, Is your project 24/96 or did you just import these tracks in to the working project standard?
7, And do they really need to be 24/96? (are they just synth lines or real orch/vox recorded in pro studios?
Yes, you can do the core distribution method, but I've found in 90% of cases it's not necessary and nearly all of the problems have a root in flakey/buggy plugins, badly planned projects or grossly inefficient choices within the project.
If you answer these questions above, we can eliminate them one by one before getting in to bussing to spread loads etc. |
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| meriter |
Thanks RANN I was hoping one of you guys would help me out with this, though I guess it's not really even that big of a problem. I don't even intend to master this myself, but I like being able to mix with the plugin on to get a better idea of how it'll end up sounding.
1, What mac do you have and what version of OSX?
april 2010 mbp 2.4 ghz i5, 8 gigs of ram and a SSD. most recent version of snow leopard
2, Are you in 32bit or 64bit mode?
pretty sure it's 64 bit (you mean is the OS 64 or 32 bit?)
3, What mastering plugin are you talking about?
waves L3-16
4, Why 5 instances of battery?
Poor decision I know, but I've freezed all the instruments tracks so I don't think it should be an issue.
5, What is your normal routing method - are you all individual tracks or are there already auxes/groups?
I have a bus set up for each of the more demanding plugins, but most of the tracks don't need much else besides EQ'ing so they are just routed to the master bus. I've got one instance of the space designer as a bus and am setting up sends for whatever tracks need some verb. I have a bus compressor set up too and am routing most of the percussion tracks to that. I've never worked with 'groups' before in logic.
6, Is your project 24/96 or did you just import these tracks in to the working project standard?
Recorded in 24/96.
7, And do they really need to be 24/96? (are they just synth lines or real orch/vox recorded in pro studios?
:/ |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
Thanks RANN I was hoping one of you guys would help me out with this, though I guess it's not really even that big of a problem. I don't even intend to master this myself, but I like being able to mix with the plugin on to get a better idea of how it'll end up sounding.
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No worries - regarding the master plug, it's debatable whether it's worth doing it like that. The general rule is that if you really (really) know what you're doing and are going to add that master plug anyway at the end of the project, then it's worth doing, but otherwise stay the away at all costs.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
1, april 2010 mbp 2.4 ghz i5, 8 gigs of ram and a SSD. most recent version of snow leopard
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Should be all good on that count - that puppy is more than enough to produce on. Just make sure you have TRIM setup for the SSD.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
2,pretty sure it's 64 bit (you mean is the OS 64 or 32 bit?)
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No, OSX is 64 bit, I mean whether you're utilizing the 64bit mode of logic (and the 64bit kernal). As standard it's usually 32bit but I've seen it catch someone out before, but having said that it's 99% not the case as you would not be able to use waves plugs without having installed the specific 64bit update, and therefore you'd know if you were using the 64bit logic mode.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
3,waves L3-16
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Little bit of a hog but certainly should not be killing your CPU that badly.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
4,Poor decision I know, but I've freezed all the instruments tracks so I don't think it should be an issue.
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Freezing them actually will free up a lot of CPU but Battery is buggy (especially bad on some versions) and it's also a notorious resource hog so just be careful. That could be causing you issues. I only ever use 1 instance of battery (it's a multi output device) and you can always commit and bounce any of the tracks to audio, which will again let you run less instances. However you're freezing them so it should not be too much of an issue.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
5,I have a bus set up for each of the more demanding plugins, but most of the tracks don't need much else besides EQ'ing so they are just routed to the master bus. I've got one instance of the space designer as a bus and am setting up sends for whatever tracks need some verb. I have a bus compressor set up too and am routing most of the percussion tracks to that. I've never worked with 'groups' before in logic.
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Don't worry about groups then for the time being. When you say "for the more demanding plugins, that makes me worry that you have a bunch of other "less demanding" plugs as inserts for other channels. Really, inserts on individual channels should be sparse, as most FX can be used with Aux sends which is a far more efficient way of working. I think some of your problems are actually down to bad resource usage and workflow inefficianecy but more on that later.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
6, Recorded in 24/96.
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Do you really need them in 24/96 when the rest of the project is not? Bounce them down to 44.1 if needed. Again, it depends on the content - if it's beautiful Vox, recorded in a stunning live room, with a nice U49 and Neve pre-amp, then fair enough, but if it's your ex girlfriend doing her aguilera impression on an SM58 in to your built in mic pre, do yourself a favor and save the disk space.
So going back to efficiency: you raised some red flags with the 5 instances of battery and talking about "more demanding plugs on sends". In most projects, I normally see about 80% of the FX can be dealt with sends which is the far more efficient way of working, with then just a few inserts for specific things on other channels as needed (like compression or a distortion plug etc).
I reckon if you look at your project and think about how to streamline your track usage, how many instances of what, and properly use sends, you won't need to freeze any tracks.
one other thing to look for is what version of plugins you're using. Battery for instance was buggy as on my mac until I downgraded two versions earlier. Some other plugs are hogs until you get the latest update. it's a case of googling or asking here as to what really works.
I hope this helps but if not, post up a pic of your mixer with all the plugs and I'll be able to give more direct answers. |
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| Energy_3 |
| That was a great read for me, cheers fellas |
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| meriter |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
but if it's your ex girlfriend doing her aguilera impression on an SM58 in to your built in mic pre, do yourself a favor and save the disk space. |
Hah! Wow. It's actually embarrassing how accurate that is. Yes it's an ex girlfriend, yes it's an SM58, and yes it's through the mic pre. If you had said regina spektor instead of aguilera I'd be asking for a palm reading. :p
Anyway... I do agree battery is buggy as . I'm making it a point to use the NI stuff less and less. This is an older project though. I bet you anything if I bounced the audio, or even just reloaded the samples into an exs24 instrument things would even out. That's what I'll try next. I do think there is some merit in testing your mix with the mastering stuff on, but I wouldn't trust it completely. Just using it as a reference and it does sometimes reveal flaws in the mix.
| quote: | Don't worry about groups then for the time being. When you say "for the more demanding plugins, that makes me worry that you have a bunch of other "less demanding" plugs as inserts for other channels. Really, inserts on individual channels should be sparse, as most FX can be used with Aux sends which is a far more efficient way of working. I think some of your problems are actually down to bad resource usage and workflow inefficianecy but more on that later.
So going back to efficiency: you raised some red flags with the 5 instances of battery and talking about "more demanding plugs on sends". In most projects, I normally see about 80% of the FX can be dealt with sends which is the far more efficient way of working, with then just a few inserts for specific things on other channels as needed (like compression or a distortion plug etc). |
Yeah I'm pretty much working this way now... didn't in the past but I'm learning. Now I have it set up with one maybe two delay busses, 1 reverb, drum bus ect. I actually don't use many inserts I try to use the synths onboard effects when possible. Most of the tracks just have logic's eq and maybe a C1 here and there, or logic's chorus effect which honestly the processor barely notices. The 5 instances of Battery I knew was stupid as I was doing it, pretty sure I had been drinking.
| quote: | | No, OSX is 64 bit, I mean whether you're utilizing the 64bit mode of logic (and the 64bit kernal). As standard it's usually 32bit but I've seen it catch someone out before, but having said that it's 99% not the case as you would not be able to use waves plugs without having installed the specific 64bit update, and therefore you'd know if you were using the 64bit logic mode. |
First I've heard of this, I might have installed the update and don't remember. I'll read up on it. Ugh the learning curve for this stuff is just insane. There's just so much you don't even know you don't know. I'm trying to talk one of my musician friends out of self-producing just cause he's like "I want to be able to achieve a pro quality sound on my own, what kind of audio interface should I get?" Groan.
Thank you for the invaluable help. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
Hah! Wow. It's actually embarrassing how accurate that is. Yes it's an ex girlfriend, yes it's an SM58, and yes it's through the mic pre. If you had said regina spektor instead of aguilera I'd be asking for a palm reading. :p
Anyway... I do agree battery is buggy as . I'm making it a point to use the NI stuff less and less. This is an older project though. I bet you anything if I bounced the audio, or even just reloaded the samples into an exs24 instrument things would even out. That's what I'll try next. I do think there is some merit in testing your mix with the mastering stuff on, but I wouldn't trust it completely. Just using it as a reference and it does sometimes reveal flaws in the mix.
Yeah I'm pretty much working this way now... didn't in the past but I'm learning. Now I have it set up with one maybe two delay busses, 1 reverb, drum bus ect. I actually don't use many inserts I try to use the synths onboard effects when possible. Most of the tracks just have logic's eq and maybe a C1 here and there, or logic's chorus effect which honestly the processor barely notices. The 5 instances of Battery I knew was stupid as I was doing it, pretty sure I had been drinking.
First I've heard of this, I might have installed the update and don't remember. I'll read up on it. Ugh the learning curve for this stuff is just insane. There's just so much you don't even know you don't know. I'm trying to talk one of my musician friends out of self-producing just cause he's like "I want to be able to achieve a pro quality sound on my own, what kind of audio interface should I get?" Groan.
Thank you for the invaluable help. |
Lol about the SM58/Girlfriend bit. Not that I'm a psychic or any weirdness like that but I have to admit I sometimes do have an uncanny ability to predict things. I can barely watch a film these without knowing the full plot and ending after 10 mins. It actually freaks out my GF sometimes.
On the same page with you about NI - I do like their stuff but it always seems a little buggy - even swapping between patches on certain synths can be glitchy, bot to mention NI royally ed up with at least three of their battery updates since version 3.
I do love battery though so know I've got a working version (3.05 I think) it's all ok, but I really should get more in ot EXS24 - it really can do everything and is way less of a cpu hog than battery.
I seriously doubt that you're in 64bit mode of logic though - I just mentioned it as someone I knew was tearing their hair out with processing/plugin issues and it turned out he'd been toying with the 64bit mode and that was causing all his problems.
Your MBP actually uses the 64bit kernal by defualt (even though logic is not).
If you want to know more about it the 64bit kernal:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3770
And then Logic 64bit mode:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3989 |
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| meriter |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I do love battery though so know I've got a working version (3.05 I think) it's all ok, but I really should get more in ot EXS24 - it really can do everything and is way less of a cpu hog than battery. |
It also integrates really well with logic. Double click the sample and it opens up in the waveform editor. Pretty much sold on it. The only thing is that it prompts you to save a new instrument set with everything. Even if you're just using it as a one shot thing you never plan on using again, still have to save it externally, it doesn't just save within the project. Stupid imo. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
It also integrates really well with logic. Double click the sample and it opens up in the waveform editor. Pretty much sold on it. The only thing is that it prompts you to save a new instrument set with everything. Even if you're just using it as a one shot thing you never plan on using again, still have to save it externally, it doesn't just save within the project. Stupid imo. |
Yeah I noticed that and was wondering about the best way to mange it. Do you just keep saving it as the same instrument (assuming you're just adding to an existing project instance) or do you save it as something different each time? And if the latter, then do you just save all those in the working project folder? |
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