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power conditioners
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| Looney4Clooney |
| wondering about the pros and cons and how much would one really have to spend to get something useful. I'm been told the intro furman products are a waste of money. Not really worried about lightning surges. Just wondering about power quality and how it will affect the lifetime of things running on ac. My home is old and although I got new wiring and box put in, i doubt the power is very clean. I suppose i should test it first. But in the meantime, any tips on this kinda stuff. |
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| Eric J |
The cheaper Furman stuff is basically just rack mount power strips. I wouldn't call them a waste of money necessarily, but they dont really provide anything in terms of protection. Furman (and others) have high-end lines of power conditioners that go in the 4 figure range. Those are supposed to provide "clean" power in the form of voltage regulation, but I wonder how much value that has in a studio without a lot of analogue outboard gear.
Personally I have a Monster Power conditioner that cost around $300. The thing I like about it is that it provides 12 outlets in the form of 3 banks that turn on in a specific order. SO the idea is that you can plug in certain outboard devices into the different banks and it turns things on and off in a specific order. So it'll turn on your audio interface before your speakers for example (so there is no POP), and then it turns the banks off in reverse order, all from one switch. Nice, reliable and rack-mount. Supposed to provide some type of protection from surges, but haven't really needed that so far. |
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| Lith |
hocus pocus magic!
most people don't seem to need these things, and i agree that the cheaper ones are more power strips than anything.
regulating voltage is important for analog equipment, but outside of that, unless your home's power is really fluctuating and unpredictable, im guessing youd be better off with a UPS than a power conditioner. that way you get two functions in one.
but, each quality piece of equipment serves its purpose. i tend to lean towards diminishing returns unless the application requires it.
:just my personal experience. electricians are suited to answering this question, not musicians. i do own a soldering iron however! |
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| DJ RANN |
Firstly, the new box and wiring you had done will do little (if anything) to clean up your power, maybe except solve some potential safety and ground hum issues. You have to realise that every single applicance you have plugged in your apartment, especially anything with relays, transformers or motors (basically everything) is polluting your main feed.
I could list it all again but here's my post from the thread when you asked this back in March:
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Nah, Furman are better for audio applications. APC are good but they are way more geared towards UPS functionality for computers in server environments, whereas furman really sets the standard for power conditioning in Audio specific environments.
This thread has everything you need to know, inlcuding the info on how much power you can expect to be able to draw from household breaker cicuits and what sort of power conditioning you need:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ighlight=furman
Simply put:
1, avoid dimmer light switches in the same room or circuit feed as audio equipment (unless you're going for the expensive transformered ones in which case let me know and I'll tell you where to get em cheap)
2, Avoid having anything plugged in to the same circuit that has a high wattage motor or electromagnetic element (blender, microwave, hoover, washing machine).
3, Get a furman power conditioner, either the 15 or 20 amp range.
4, Run your power cables away from audio and if they must cross, make sure it's at a 90degree angle.
5, Run balanced (or pseudo balanced) cables. |
That thread, although a little old really does have all the info.
Have a to disagree though with Eric a little - the basic (not rock bottom) furmans ($300+) do actually offer power conditioning in the true sense, regulated power feed and surge/spike protection.
Don't buy the super cheap furman, samson or monster ones (like $150) - they are nothing more than in line capacitors, and there's no "clean" power from them as such.
Furman really are the ones to go for, and they have continued to add more features in terms of conditioning than any other brand and you don't need to spend $7k for their audiophile models to get power conditioning.
Whether you actually need it depends on a few things but the main one is if you have a studio grade setup and signal chain that will let you see the benefits of clean power. (i.e. don't bother if your setup is a pair of KRK's and an M-aduio soundcard.
Finally, yes, the US is far less regulated in terms of power regulations and standards (most appliances don't have fuses in the plugs unlike in Europe, breakers have much more lax thresholds, there's more variance in accepted power outputs etc.) so more's the need for power conditioning. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Firstly, the new box and wiring you had done will do little (if anything) to clean up your power, maybe except solve some potential safety and ground hum issues. You have to realise that every single applicance you have plugged in your apartment, especially anything with relays, transformers or motors (basically everything) is polluting your main feed.
I could list it all again but here's my post from the thread when you asked this back in March:
That thread, although a little old really does have all the info.
Have a to disagree though with Eric a little - the basic (not rock bottom) furmans ($300+) do actually offer power conditioning in the true sense, regulated power feed and surge/spike protection.
Don't buy the super cheap furman, samson or monster ones (like $150) - they are nothing more than in line capacitors, and there's no "clean" power from them as such.
Furman really are the ones to go for, and they have continued to add more features in terms of conditioning than any other brand and you don't need to spend $7k for their audiophile models to get power conditioning.
Whether you actually need it depends on a few things but the main one is if you have a studio grade setup and signal chain that will let you see the benefits of clean power. (i.e. don't bother if your setup is a pair of KRK's and an M-aduio soundcard.
Finally, yes, the US is far less regulated in terms of power regulations and standards (most appliances don't have fuses in the plugs unlike in Europe, breakers have much more lax thresholds, there's more variance in accepted power outputs etc.) so more's the need for power conditioning. |
ya the box was more so I don't start a fire. The place had old school fuses and I was definitely putting in higher load fuses that what was intended.
I've seen those furman non rack extension chords that claim to do the same as say the 200$ ish racks. Would I be better in getting a rack with one out that is good then split from there or have a few. Basically this room has two sockets. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
ya the box was more so I don't start a fire. The place had old school fuses and I was definitely putting in higher load fuses that what was intended.
I've seen those furman non rack extension chords that claim to do the same as say the 200$ ish racks. Would I be better in getting a rack with one out that is good then split from there or have a few. Basically this room has two sockets. |
Yeah, don't forget the east cost has the oldest wiring in the USA - NY/Buffalo being one of the first and some of that old wiring is positively dangerous. The used to insulate wires by wrapping them with paper and oil. Not such a great idea 80 years later.
IMO, go for rack mount - the extension cords are nothing more than surge protectors.
Either go with the P8 series II units (depending on ampage draw) or any of the conditioners with LiFT technology. Do not go for the merit series - they do not have the same power conditioning technology in them as the rest of the rack mount offerings.
If you've got the extra and ever work with any anal guitarist, the go for the P-1800 (about $360).
Otherwise just get a couple of P8 II's. |
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| DJ RANN |
Following on from the questions in the Pictars of your hovel studios, here's some updated info on power related issues:
UPS's are in theory nice and what you want is a regenerated power, in the form of AC being converted to DC and then that making a pure sine feed of AC.
But with UPS's, usually there is an element of compromise. Often the battery only kicks in if the voltage drops, which means the regular mains is connected most of the time. A normal UPS stops your computer from going down in a short blackout, but isn't a clean audio solution.
The other problem is voltage drop, and a lot of UPS's actually only kick in when there is a significant drop like 5 or even 10v.
A voltage drop of even 2v can give a small but annoying potential difference between neutral and ground, which drives some unbalanced gear crazy.
The key here is pure sine AC at 50/60hz, with a regulated flow (no drops or spikes) and BALANCED POWER.
TBH, there's a couple of ways of doing balanced power:
1, (and best way) get a licensed electrician (preferably one that has done audio installs before) to give your house or studio wiring. It actually doesn't cost that much, in many cases, way less than really expensive boutique balanced power generators. You can just do this for your one studio room and it will negate any problems apart from surge/drops which you can manage with a decent consumer UPS.
2, Get a balanced power generator. Will probably cost a fair bit but it's nice that you can just use that are your main feed with a cheap UPS and take it wherever you eventually move to.
3, Install solar power. I know, it sounds weird (and certainly not an option for those of you living in the UK :p ) but a lot of studios here in NA are going this route because they store to batteries and convert to AC meaning a clean feed, and in many instances, you get crazy tax rebates and in some cases, the power companies actually pay you to feed power to them. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
depends on the unit.
My 3 UPS do both.
i ran a multimeter for 2 days. So like , reason i wasn't posting for a while, nest egg. hatched. Man life is just not fair. |
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| DJ RANN |
Do both what? you mean regenerate power and balance it? That must be an expensive unit.
Nest egg? , I truly hope that doesn't mean what I think it does? |
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| DJ RANN |
It wouldn't get the steam off my on a cold winter's morning.
All it does is offer a passive ground isolation. At least it's not a ground lift, but basically it will do all to condition your power. It's a temp fix for someone that has a guitar amp with group loop hum, nothing more. |
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| Juan Paulino |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
It wouldn't get the steam off my on a cold winter's morning.
All it does is offer a passive ground isolation. At least it's not a ground lift, but basically it will do all to condition your power. It's a temp fix for someone that has a guitar amp with group loop hum, nothing more. |
Alright man, thanks. |
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