There's been a little discussion in here for the last week or two about dub techno, that's been spilling over into other threads and taking things off-topic. This thread is sort-of a place for any continuing discussions about dub techno: does it all sound the same, does it get unfair criticism, what are some good dub techno acts/releases etc.
But also, I'd like to post this old-ish interview with Rod Modell and Steve Hitchell, AKA DeepChord and Soultek, AKA Echospace. I said recently that there's no danger of me getting bored of the Echospace sound because it's far richer and more immersive than such basic tracks have any right to be, and this interview gives some rare insight into their methods, and how dub techno gets to sound that deep:
I've recently started getting into techno to be fully honest. What is the main difference between dub-techno and other form of ambiental electronic music?
Mattinsanity
it has dawned on me that my dislike for dub techno is directly linked to my lack of intelligence.
Woony
There's actually another really long Modell interview (I think done around the time hash bar loops came out) I need to dig out, it's really ing long and goes very deep into the man's mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Chimney
I've recently started getting into techno to be fully honest. What is the main difference between dub-techno and other form of ambiental electronic music?
What do you mean with 'other forms of ambiental electronic music'? I don't think dub techno has a whole lot do with Ambient, really. I mean shure, dub techno has tendencies to put ambient soundscapes into the background of the tracks but what drives the music is very different. If you're asking for a definition of dub techno, 4/4 bassdrum, dubby bass, typical dubtechno chords. Not every track has these typical dubtech chords but in this genre everything is measured on the Basic Channel standard anyways.
Chimney
quote:
Originally posted by Woony
There's actually another really long Modell interview (I think done around the time hash bar loops came out) I need to dig out, it's really ing long and goes very deep into the man's mind.
What do you mean with 'other forms of ambiental electronic music'? I don't think dub techno has a whole lot do with Ambient, really. I mean shure, dub techno has tendencies to put ambient soundscapes into the background of the tracks but what drives the music is very different. If you're asking for a definition of dub techno, 4/4 bassdrum, dubby bass, typical dubtechno chords. Not every track has these typical dubtech chords but in this genre everything is measured on the Basic Channel standard anyways.
Is this dub-techno then?
Woony
Stylistically I don't think it is (more like ambient with a bassdrum in places - and Bvdub has his unique sound anyway) but it's labeled as dubtech because it's released on a dubtech label and tightly associated with the whole sound anyways.
sljiva
Argh, Bvdub is one of the guys that epitomize all the worst things about dub techno for me - primarily hiperproduction and never-changing sound. Granted, I've not heard all of his material (who'd be so masochistic, the guy released around 10 albums just in 2011), but from what I have I can conclude that there's no bigger music polluter right now than him. If he got his together, concentrate a little bit, put his mind and technical skills to work and spend a year or more working on a single album, maybe he could make something worth listening and appreciating in 5 years time. This way, he's just another dub techno hero - celebrated inside the circle, completely despised or ignored outside.
And this embedded video is still (lousy) dub techno, albeit introspective and focused on the atmosphere. It's nothing new for techno producers to concentrate particularly on the ambient aspect of their music - it has a lot to do with exploring the space and sci-fi themes - one of the main preoccupations of early techno music. People like Juan Atkins (Model 500), Carl Craig and John Beltran did this kind of stuff already in the early/mid 90s, and for me this type of techno is much more interesting than its 4x4, dancefloor variant.
As for difference between this type of music and normal techno/ambient, back in the analogue days Basic Channel had a practice of using their studio as an instrument - in the same vein as King Tubby had 20 years earlier in Jamaica. They would take a track, decompose it and then play with different elements of it - emphasizing some and demphasizing others, adding echo, tape delay or reverb, manipulating percussion and basically reshaping the original to sound completely different without the necessity to start a new track from a scratch. All of their tracks had a set of reshapes/remixes (Radiance I/II/III, Q1.1/I/II/III/IIII) originating from the same source. These days producers probably have a different approach, software based, but the sound itself is still easily recognizable - stripped down, sometimes percussion-less, lots of reverb, hiss and echo etc. Standard ambient/techno is made in a standard way, without any processing afterwards - by means of synths, samplers and sequencers.
Chimney
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
Argh, Bvdub is one of the guys that epitomize all the worst things about dub techno for me - primarily hiperproduction and never-changing sound. Granted, I've not heard all of his material (who'd be so masochistic, the guy released around 10 albums just in 2011), but from what I have I can conclude that there's no bigger music polluter right now than him. If he got his together, concentrate a little bit, put his mind and technical skills to work and spend a year or more working on a single album, maybe he could make something worth listening and appreciating in 5 years time. This way, he's just another dub techno hero - celebrated inside the circle, completely despised or ignored outside.
And this embedded video is still (lousy) dub techno, albeit introspective and focused on the atmosphere. It's nothing new for techno producers to concentrate particularly on the ambient aspect of their music - it has a lot to do with exploring the space and sci-fi themes - one of the main preoccupations of early techno music. People like Juan Atkins (Model 500), Carl Craig and John Beltran did this kind of stuff already in the early/mid 90s, and for me this type of techno is much more interesting than its 4x4, dancefloor variant.
As for difference between this type of music and normal techno/ambient, back in the analogue days Basic Channel had a practice of using their studio as an instrument - in the same vein as King Tubby had 20 years earlier in Jamaica. They would take a track, decompose it and then play with different elements of it - emphasizing some and demphasizing others, adding echo, tape delay or reverb, manipulating percussion and basically reshaping the original to sound completely different without the necessity to start a new track from a scratch. All of their tracks had a set of reshapes/remixes (Radiance I/II/III, Q1.1/I/II/III/IIII) originating from the same source. These days producers probably have a different approach, software based, but the sound itself is still easily recognizable - stripped down, sometimes percussion-less, lots of reverb, hiss and echo etc. Standard ambient/techno is made in a standard way, without any processing afterwards - by means of synths, samplers and sequencers.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by Chimney
I've recently started getting into techno to be fully honest. What is the main difference between dub-techno and other form of ambiental electronic music?
It's techno, and it's dubby. Although not very dubby, to be honest. As sljiva has alluded to, the dub connection is more in the methodology than the sound.
I mean, good luck telling me why we shouldn't call Blue Room dub techno:
Chimney
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's techno, and it's dubby. Although not very dubby, to be honest. As sljiva has alluded to, the dub connection is more in the methodology than the sound.
Guessing this is just experience thing. It's the same issue I had with progressive-house, living for a long time with the impression that all the Juno/Beatport put out, high pitched, big synthed 120 BPM under the moniker "progressive house" was really it. Only after listening to old Sasha & Digweed compilations I really started understanding what the real progressive was.
Anyway, regarding the "it's techno" quote, I must admit, although understanding 90% of the music, there are certain things that confuse me. Let me give same examplee:
Can't put my finger on why this is techno and not house. Maybe it's an issue with the degree of melody it contains, but even the melodic early detroit-techno had clear imprints that made it feel like techno.
SYSTEM-J
The difference between house and techno is a big question - start your own thread if you want an answer to that. Lord knows MD could do with the extra discussion.
The important part is that dub techno is still techno - it's still dance music. Ambient is not dance music. Dub techno is slow, minimal bassy, atmospheric and it almost always contains distinctive chord stabs that you'll recognise when you've listened to a lot of artists we refer to in this thread. But you should be asking what separates it from other techno.
