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Console Emulators - placebo effect?
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| cryophonik |
| Any of you guys using any of the new breed of analogue console emulations like the Slate VCC, SKnote StripBus, or Sonimus Satson? I bought Satson a while back because it was dirt cheap and was never really that impressed with it. I've tried putting it on every channel/buss, but I'm just not getting any "analogue magic" out of it. The track module does have pretty nice hi/lo-pass filters on it, though, so I think I got my money's worth in that regard, but I couldn't see spending more than $25 bucks on these things. I've certainly never heard any samples of the VCC in action that lead me to believe that it's worth a few hundred $. What do you guys think? Are these things worth the hype, or is it just a bunch of snake oil/placebo effect? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
VCC does nothing for me. Can only tell if you crank it all the way up and i honestly couldn't tell you if it is better, only a little different.
i think you would really need the opinion of a veteran but i dont' know anyone that actually uses it. And it is hard to take the word of endorsers.
I don't know anyone that says UAD sounds like the real thing that actually used the real thing. I'm assuming this is similar. It gets close but not really close enough to be considered a substitute. |
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| cryophonik |
| I've actually put this on every track with no other plugins and A/B-tested it by turning my FX bin off/on and there is an audible difference, albeit slight and not necessarily an "improvement, just a different color. However, that's in a completely raw mix with no other insert FX. Once I start adding the insert FX, EQ, etc., I'm pretty sure that the contribution of this plugin is indiscernible. |
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| tehlord |
| I recently tried the Nebula convolution emulations and I honestly couldn't see what all the fuss was about. Admittedly my monitoring setup isn't the best in the world, but the difference was just that, only a difference. |
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| DJ RANN |
IMO they're not a "placebo effect" as such, just more of an incredibly small coloration effect.
There's a bit of a misconception (albeit helped by the manufacturers to try to sell more) that they somehow do more than they are supposed to.
Frankly speaking, these are very small changes in the sound that are really what I call a cumulative effect; something that when combined with other kit and techniques of engineering, give a subtle different overall sound, but there's not point having these unless you really know what you;re doing, have a really pristine signal chain and great monitoring situation.
Kind of pointless otherwise. |
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| cryophonik |
| All good points, RANN. I still think the placebo effect applies to the home studio hobbyists who need to justify their expensive purchases, referring primarily the VCC owners. |
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| Normie |
Wouldn't a person going for the console vibe be better served by the Waves API/Helios/SSL plugs or others that model most of the signal chain to begin with?
Side note...marketing hype aside, yes I know a plug will never beat the real thing but for purposes of discussion, take the SSL E/G strip and bus comp. I don't see how you get the SSL sound without the actual signal chain. The Waves SSL plug models most if not all of them whereas the slate doesn't and seems to combine features into a couple dials? Maybe I'm totally missing the point, but it seems to me that if I want to pretend I'm CLA and have a make believe digital SSL4K, I'd want to find the plugs used to recreate one it as close as possible.
Isn't PT/Logic/Reaper etc. outfitted with actual purpose built emulators on each track a lot closer to 'the real thing' than a one size fits all plug made to aproximate several? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Normie
Wouldn't a person going for the console vibe be better served by the Waves API/Helios/SSL plugs or others that model most of the signal chain to begin with?
Side note...marketing hype aside, yes I know a plug will never beat the real thing but for purposes of discussion, take the SSL E/G strip and bus comp. I don't see how you get the SSL sound without the actual signal chain. The Waves SSL plug models most if not all of them whereas the slate doesn't and seems to combine features into a couple dials? Maybe I'm totally missing the point, but it seems to me that if I want to pretend I'm CLA and have a make believe digital SSL4K, I'd want to find the plugs used to recreate one it as close as possible.
Isn't PT/Logic/Reaper etc. outfitted with actual purpose built emulators on each track a lot closer to 'the real thing' than a one size fits all plug made to aproximate several? |
I think yes and no to your original question; if you want a desk emulator then it does what it says and I suppose it's meant to be paired with either other emulations or real kit.
For instance at one of the studios I worked at we had Euphonix System 5 consoles, but also a lot of vintage and expensive outboard - I suppose if someone really wanted the sound of a certain "desk" you could slap it in the chain, as the Sys 5 basically doesn't have a sound. Not that it ever happened as if the engineers or composers wanted that sound they go mix it on that desk in the first place.
I think these emulations are designed to appeal to the semi-pro/project studio guys who won't ever really have access to the real thing but are easily talked in to thinking they need it (see GS for more info ;) ) |
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| Raphie |
There is no substitute for outboard, you will not get the oomphhh and you will not get the density and bigger stage.
lows will keep sounding "hollow" rather than "dense" and highs more "sharp" no soothing warm tones to be found ITB.
Not saying 1 is "better" than the other, but they are certainly "different" depends on what your after, but the ITB "analogue" promisse, is nothing more than that,a marketing lie. |
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| Normie |
So I took your advice and headed to GS for a bit of the old ultraviolence as my cat-o-nine tails is in for repair and I felt the need to to abuse myself...While I now have a better idea of that the VCC is about, Damn...just damn. I can see why Cryo is thinking Placebo effect. Opinions seem to run from "Blanket on the mix" to "didn't hear anything" to one guy that practically gave birth on the forum.
While I give the Slate crew respect for their level of participation, and would love to hear the results for myself (no Ilok at the moment) A lot of those guys seem to be expecting it to be magic in a plug, but your assessment is probably about 99.9% closer to reality. A lot of the guys posting A/Bs always seemed to do something 'extra' to their posted comparisons, so God knows what the truth is.
Be fun to play with, but I have a few hundred things to in the Virtual Normie Console first.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I think these emulations are designed to appeal to the semi-pro/project studio guys who won't ever really have access to the real thing but are easily talked in to thinking they need it (see GS for more info ;) ) |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
There is no substitute for outboard, you will not get the oomphhh and you will not get the density and bigger stage.
lows will keep sounding "hollow" rather than "dense" and highs more "sharp" no soothing warm tones to be found ITB.
Not saying 1 is "better" than the other, but they are certainly "different" depends on what your after, but the ITB "analogue" promisse, is nothing more than that,a marketing lie. |
your first paragraph pretty much says it is better. So you are saying 1 is better. 1 is better if you have 500 000 + duckets layin about. |
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| Lucidity |
| For me, I have bought Vcc, but only the tube version, it was cheaper than the whole VCC package. You can just buy, its called Tube-RC or something. And while I don't think its drastically different sounding when you a/b it, I do feel that it makes a difference when I'm mixing, I can't really explain it, but when I have it turned on, I feel like I make different mixing decisions compared to when I don't use it. And, I can hear it, albeit very slightly. When I a/b in my daw, if its on, It kinda sounds like the bottom end tightens up and the lower mid also, however I don't hear much difference in the high end of the spectrum. but, I have not made any full tracks with it yet, I'm still experimenting with my new mixing tools. (bought lots of mixing plugs with x-mas sales) |
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