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Looking for female vocalist for a vocal-trance track (pg. 2)
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| Mel David |
http://www.malukah.com/
Use her. If you don't have enough money to pay her, perhaps the TA boys can pitch in $1 each. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
I can only speak from my perspective, that of insanely handsome guy that looks so damn cool that i must be someone important but even the hottest of women get butterflies because i am so intense.
karaoke is your answer. Even if you don't a great singer, there will be a bunch of insecure pop star wanna be's that perform for the attention and will do anything anywhere to get a positive reaction. Ya you see where im going. That closet, you needed to clean but never had the time, oh yeah, you ing know it man. You just got yourself a nice neat closet. Now how do you feel ? Like a duke.
But you will find better talent at kareoki than most pop rosters. That is why Adelle pisses me off to no end. She is a kareoki singer and she looks like a hippo. This should not be allowed. There is an Adelle in every single city on the planet. Most of the times, she will be better looking.
And some business advice here, ideally, you should find an artist. Something you can sell. SOmeone you can work together more than once and make an album. Dj GuyWithSmelly{Penis featuring Christaberg Steinhorse , i mean ya thats a pretty cool name but people will buy say somthing called Lexxxy because nobody cares about a producer. So ya, just a thought.
This is one thing I think Cryo just goes about the wrong way. Maybe he has changed his ways but he puts his name before the name of someone that people care about. If you need the props. whatever but people don't understand what the a producer does. EDM is the only music where producers seem to think people care more about them than the artist singing which unless it is just a one off is silly. But then again, EDM is only being sold to djs so i guess it doesnt matter but say, EDm started being sold to actual people, people hear someone sing, they assume that is the artist. Just like they assume tiesto made everything he played. Nobody will ever comprehend what a dj or producer does so stop confusing the kids. |
Good advice but:
A, You got to stop slagging off Adele. Much as your music e-penis clearly makes the undisputed Mandingo of TA, I've heard the girl sing live and I can tell you first hand she has more range and talent than any of the session singers I've ever met. Range is truly unreal and what she does to bland songs is ing impressive.
B, Every Genre does the Producer-feat-singer - it was actually Hiphop that started it, and in fairness, it makes sense when the producer is the real talent, then some girl of craigs list is the singer. Having said that, just about all pop acts follow the other method, of putting the salaried singer as the name, while the producer actually stays behind the curtain counting the money (see milli-vanilli for more details). |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
This is one thing I think Cryo just goes about the wrong way. Maybe he has changed his ways but he puts his name before the name of someone that people care about. If you need the props. whatever but people don't understand what the a producer does. EDM is the only music where producers seem to think people care more about them than the artist singing which unless it is just a one off is silly. But then again, EDM is only being sold to djs so i guess it doesnt matter but say, EDm started being sold to actual people, people hear someone sing, they assume that is the artist. Just like they assume tiesto made everything he played. Nobody will ever comprehend what a dj or producer does so stop confusing the kids. |
Well, several points to address here, but first of all, I am not a "producer" or a "DJ". I am, first and foremost, a musician and a songwriter. I write the music and the melodies, the girls write the lyrics and sing the songs. Together we are a production team. I am the common denominator in the equation, and I'm not just some guy who is along for the ride. Without me, none of these girls would have any songs to sing on and, without them, I would have very few songs completed because I don't care to write many instrumental tracks. That said, I don't care about how much credit I get and I actually spend very little time promoting myself. I'm far more interested in seeing the singers get their name out there because they are the ones who are most motivated to move their singing careers forward. So, from that respect, I totally agree with you - the singer is, and should be, the focus of our songs. That's why I always make sure that their name and face is front and center in any release.
For a while, we would put our songs out there as "[singer] and cryophonik", but the labels didn't like that approach because it seems unconventional to them, so they always go with "cryophonik featuring [singer]". But, the bottom line for us is that it really doesn't matter because: (a) I'm not a brand name by any means, so nobody even cares which name comes first, and (b) the singers still get far more attention than I do or ever will. Case in point: Aliciya Angel has 7,400+ followers on Facebook, I have 150 or so...and I'm totally cool with that. I also give them all the earnings from our releases, despite the fact that I have tens of thousands of $$$ invested, and they have none. |
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| Echelon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
it is the trend now that they are starting to approach the work like voice over artists with a website with material and different styles so that people can easily go thru and no waste time.
But don't expect like a collaboration, they will expect you to have either a score or at least the melody on some instrument. If you ask them to make the melody, they will be calling their manager right away and you just lost the rights to your track. The ones that are listed are also in the union so 3 hours minimum, you can expect to pay 100-200 an hour.
This is great if you know exactly what you want. My girlfriend does this kind of stuff and can usually do everything in 1 take and they are happy to move on to the next thing.
But if you meet an amateur that can sing, well you both are benefiting and chances are , if you are decent, you will not have to pay by the hour. And karaoke really is a good place for this. |
Yeah as I said in the original post, I know exactly what I want, I'll even sing it over the track so the singer can learn the lyrics and melody. It shouldn't take more than one or two takes for the lead, plus any harmonies. The whole thing total shouldn't take more than 20-25 minutes to record. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echelon
Yeah as I said in the original post, I know exactly what I want, I'll even sing it over the track so the singer can learn the lyrics and melody. It shouldn't take more than one or two takes for the lead, plus any harmonies. The whole thing total shouldn't take more than 20-25 minutes to record. |
hmmmmm. Have you ever done a recording session with a singer? and what about with one you've never worked with before? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
For a while, we would put our songs out there as "[singer] and cryophonik", but the labels didn't like that approach because it seems unconventional to them, so they always go with "cryophonik featuring [singer]". But, the bottom line for us is that it really doesn't matter because: (a) I'm not a brand name by any means, so nobody even cares which name comes first, and (b) the singers still get far more attention than I do or ever will. Case in point: Aliciya Angel has 7,400+ followers on Facebook, I have 150 or so...and I'm totally cool with that. I also give them all the earnings from our releases, despite the fact that I have tens of thousands of $$$ invested, and they have none. |
seems you know what is up, but your label needs a kidney punch. They wouldn't sell a rap record entitled, MutLang, featuring Dmz. I mean if it was a one off, i would understand, but you do albums no ? or at least eps. I would just tell your label you like to little boys and it really is just a bad idea to have your name upfront. |
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| Echelon |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
hmmmmm. Have you ever done a recording session with a singer? and what about with one you've never worked with before? |
Not with another singer but I'm a singer myself. I've done multiple recording sessions with multiple bands including two professional studio sessions with my current band. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
seems you know what is up, but your label needs a kidney punch. They wouldn't sell a rap record entitled, MutLang, featuring Dmz. I mean if it was a one off, i would understand, but you do albums no ? or at least eps. I would just tell your label you like to little boys and it really is just a bad idea to have your name upfront. |
Like I said, I don't disagree with you and would be fine with labels putting my name last, but the reality is that it doesn't seem to make a difference in terms of how much recognition the singer gets. Anyone seeing the title of the song and photo of the singer will know immediately that she is the focal point and they will never have a problem figuring out who she is, or how to find her other songs, websites, etc. But, I'll also add that I'm probably an exception - I'm guessing that most producers probably would not be OK with the singer being credited first because they are trying to get noticed themselves. I'm not - I'm only interested in making music and trying to help the singers get noticed. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
hmmmmm. Have you ever done a recording session with a singer? and what about with one you've never worked with before? |
its just like 8 mile. every time. You gonna be a star ! Now lets warm up that perdy mouth of yours. I find most pros just know what to do. Although i've seen singers that had to have the fake mic technique used because they just wont stop touching the mic. So they give her a ty 57 so hold and play with while the real condenser is in front.And they always like more reverb in their mix. More reverb please. I got have more reverb. I've seen all types. The worst are the rnb type voices that like are stylized for like modern rnb ie no vibrato so really small voice which means they usually have no training, tend to feel they are going to still be a pop star and just do annoying like, the one can on the hear technique, the move the mic technique like it is a giant penis and you are at your day job, and then the girl that like tells people when to redo it. I played piano piano and bass for this jingle thing and the singer they had paid for , well they already got what they needed in 1 hour, and she was like lets do this, and they were like um sure, nothing was rolling, they just put it on loop, and we went for a cigarette. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
its just like 8 mile. every time. You gonna be a star ! Now lets warm up that perdy mouth of yours. I find most pros just know what to do. Although i've seen singers that had to have the fake mic technique used because they just wont stop touching the mic. So they give her a ty 57 so hold and play with while the real condenser is in front.And they always like more reverb in their mix. More reverb please. I got have more reverb. I've seen all types. The worst are the rnb type voices that like are stylized for like modern rnb ie no vibrato so really small voice which means they usually have no training, tend to feel they are going to still be a pop star and just do annoying like, the one can on the hear technique, the move the mic technique like it is a giant penis and you are at your day job, and then the girl that like tells people when to redo it. I played piano piano and bass for this jingle thing and the singer they had paid for , well they already got what they needed in 1 hour, and she was like lets do this, and they were like um sure, nothing was rolling, they just put it on loop, and we went for a cigarette. |
Lol, that about sums it up.
More Reverb - it's like drummers asking for more drums in their cans. They love the moar reverb as it nicely masks the center of the pitch which they just somehow keep missing. And yes to the fake mic trick. We once put a bunch of mics in front of this male singer because he just had to perform with whatever mic was the "live" one, like it would ejaculate fame on him if the more he caressed it. Guy didn't have a clue we were mainly using the fixed condenser and the room above his head for the recording. We even played it back to him and still had no idea that all of his "mic technique" wasn't there. The best is when they are flat and just as they start singing you turn down their cans and magically they hit pitch, but the moment it stops, they're begging for more volume and reverb in their cans.
@Echelon - plan at least for at least an hour and several takes if not a dozen. Best to have options for those edits and duff notes unless you want to start your PHD in melodyne. I've only ever been in one session where we hit it in one take and that was for 8 seconds of violins with Phil level players. Even with this one singer who was so damn on her game it was scary, we needed an hour to get the perfect 3 mins of vocals, and trust me when I say this studio is the epitome of efficiency and time management.
I heard that "you don't even know me" by Armand Van Helden was made from many takes, just recording on constant loop with the singer just belting it out again and again in the booth, while Armand had sex in another room with some groupie. Sex over, hit stop and get editing = international no.1 hit. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
from my experience, a no vocal feed always gets a better performance. Ya, some notes are flat / sharp but when you start hearing yourself , you think and you overcompensate and the performance always suffers. Usually, i find the pros, after she has warmed up, say arlgiht , we are just gonna test the levels , so do your think, and those takes are usually the ones that are best. Then when they have their mix , they sound stale, they stop ..... Pitch is just not a big deal anymore. Usually the good engineers tend to get the takes when they don't even know what is going on. And then the rest is just extra stuff just in case.
And do add to what RANN said, learn to hear not just the entire take but what you can use from each take. Sometimes, you have 4 takes, all have some issues but you know that with all that , you have a performance. And if she isn't union, you can do it all in one hour. It isn't hard to find non union singers. It would be like hiring an independant escort. With an agency , you know some black guy is not gonna come up to your door and make your neighbours think poorly of you. But you pay more, i hear. But with those independents, well you never know. You could have hit the jackpot. 18 year old heroin addict but like , only 1 month so she has that model sheen but will do anything for money. Guess whose ing walls are geting painted. Oh ya. Oh and bath grime, good bye. But seriously, heroin addiction is no laughing matter. I have only solicited an escort once. I think i told that story here. Nothing happened. She snorted my coke and thats about it. but it will make a great story for the grand kids. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
And do add to what RANN said, learn to hear not just the entire take but what you can use from each take. Sometimes, you have 4 takes, all have some issues but you know that with all that , you have a performance |
I swear to god, recording music for score (i'm not talking about the main orch - the instrument overdubs or vox etc afterwards) is a study in comping takes. The take sheet for one session for a film (about animated zoo animals) was 80 pages long, with about 25 lines for denoting takes on each page. , one section for a powell score was so complex with the flute, we literally had to punch for each note as a separate, even though the talent was arguably the best wood/flute player on the planet. Then we had to stitch all those notes together, each with different fades to make them sound real as they transitioned.
I would never just call it a day after one take from a singer even if I thought it was perfect. Either you're deluding yourself that the performance was that good, or you don't know how to judge a session.
I would get at least two/three more takes and have them push it in very subtle different directions, and that way, you can at least use them as accents or doubles later. |
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