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Language and Literature: are some languages "finer" than others?
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| Anxieties |
I was wondering about the strengths and weaknesses different languages have in literature and poetry after reading the following:
| quote: | As of 2006, French writers have been awarded more Nobel Prizes in Literature than novelists, poets and essayists of any other country. France itself ranks first in the list of Nobel Prizes in literature by country.
French literature has been for French people an object of national pride for centuries, as it is one of the most brilliant and most influential components of the Western literature.[1][2] |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_literature
| quote: | | Certainly an extensive word bank produces "finer" pieces of literature. Also, many people believe that languages with an increased sensitivity to subtle differences in verb difference, such as French, produce much finer literature. These people (James Joyce was one of them) believe that English is constrictive and limited as far as what it can express. Thoughts? |
http://www.online-literature.com/fo...ead.php?t=17271
I'm not sure if you can say that a language is finer than an another in a general sense. Maybe each language has a work of literature that it expresses more finely than all other languages?
But, once again, I'm not sure. Could it be that French really is better suited to literature than other languages? Maybe there is a language that has all the right properties for literature, as a linguistic activity, and French happens to be it? Or is it that more great literary minds just happened to write in French more than any other language? Maybe they have a rich literary culture, and if we were more educated in Literature, people would begin to see the finesse of English?
For those of you who understand many languages, do you feel that there are certain properties one language can express that other languages could never put into words? At all? Or can they all convey the same meanings which can look and sound more beautiful depending on the language? I'm not sure if it's a poetic and literary concern or if there are practical strengths and weaknesses between languages:
| quote: | Moreover, many languages habitually build long words from short ones. German is obvious; it is a trifle to coin a new compound word for a new situation, as mentioned here.
[...]
There's no reason to say "it's incredible how the Germans have a word for 'leave-taking performance'," because to create such words ad hoc is banal in German. This is even truer for Turkish, mentioned in that posting above.
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English is a rich and beautiful language, not least because England has been conquered by Vikings and Normans, and has happily been open to foreign influence through its history. We know more of its wonderful rare words because English has been written for over a thousand years, and its many dialects are well described. That's good enough for me. We shouldn't need it to have the biggest vocabulary—which can't be defined in any sensible way—to enjoy it. |
http://www.economist.com/blogs/john.../counting_words
It seems simple enough: in some languages you can figure out a way to to say anything you'd like, while other languages rely on a large vocabulary. I'm assuming that I would have to think harder for complex Literature in German, but I'd need a dictionary for complex English literature. But this is just speculation on my part. |
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| Watts |
| American is the only one you need. |
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| InnerReflection |
| French has 1/4 as many words as english. Why the hell would it be better for literature? |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| french is a 'romance'(i am fluent in french ) language .....it is harder than english solely because of the verbs. you want to talk hard?cantonese/mandarin are impossibru.even pinyin without the tones is hardethan igk at a boy scout meeting. |
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| Sleightful |
| French has a lot more words used to describe various emotions than English does. For that reason alone it probably lends itself to literature and poetry better than English. |
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| Lira |
Short Answer: No.
Long Answer: As a linguist who can babble in a handful of languages, all I can tell you is that this is nothing but language chauvinism - and do people like to brag about their language, even if it's the only language they speak! For example...| quote: | | For those of you who understand many languages, do you feel that there are certain properties one language can express that other languages could never put into words? At all? |
No. For instance, Portuguese speakers brag the word "saudade(s)", meaning "to miss someone or a past event", does not exist in any other language, having a meaning specific to our culture. As someone whose native language is Portuguese, I can confidently tell you that's nothing but pure distilled bollockery, as the difference between using a noun (as in Portuguese) or a verb (as in English) is pretty negligible, and there's no reason why periphrastic constructions - that is, constructions using more than a single word - should be considered less efficient when it comes to conveying a meaning than a single word.
Besides, if there's a word missing in a language, there's nothing stopping the users from coining a new one. |
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| stren |
inb4lira
edit: ing too late |
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| Lira |
:stongue:
You were so close though :p |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Portuguese speakers brag the word "saudade(s)", meaning "to miss someone or a past event", does not exist in any other language, having a meaning specific to our culture. |
Nostalgia? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Nostalgia? |
Close enough. The only difference is in the way you use the words: You can't say "I've got nostalgia of you" (Estou com nostalgia de você), although "I've got saudades (of you)" (Estou com saudades de você) is pretty much the standard way of saying you miss someone. So, when you feel "saudades", you're nostalgic.
If you look it up on Wikipedia, though, you'll find stuff like "[s]audade describes a deep emotional state of nostalgic longing for an absent something or someone that one loves". That's, of course, rubbish. I can say I've got saudades of drinking café au lait in Japan, for example, but this emotional state is about as deep as the yellowish part of the kids' swimming pool. That's why likening it to the verb "to miss" isn't too far off either.
Just so I don't sound grumpy, the arguments would be not altogether different from the claim that "there's no word for water in Japanese", simply because the word "mizu" means one specific kind of water (cold water) and "oyu" is yet another kind of water (hot water). So, the argument goes, when you say "I want water", a Japanese person will feel something was lost in translation. But, of course, depending on the context you can pretty much tell what kind of water we're talking about. |
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| Chimney |
| quote: | | Portuguese speakers brag the word "saudade(s)", meaning "to miss someone or a past event", does not exist in any other language, having a meaning specific to our culture. |
Just as Swedish people brag that there is no equivalent for "lagom" in any other language. This translates to "just the right amount". But they're ing morons since it exists in other languages. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| This thread... Uff da... :rolleyes: |
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