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House/Trance Mastering & Mastering Effects Chains - Advanced Users (pg. 2)
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| Evolve140 |
It wouldn't be house/trance. I mean, that's not accurate. EDM mixing, or dance music mixing. House mixing these days is as different from trance as trance is to jungle, as an example. Anyway I digress...
This makes me wonder what would make an acceptable mastering chain, maybe just PSP VW with normal tape saturation, about 4+ dB and then perhaps a limiter? Just for previews I put VW on the master, load normal tape saturation, slightly tweak, add a few dB and then export.
edit: makes me wonder what would be acceptable just for previews, on SC... |
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| wayfinder |
| i don't really master, i try to mix well and then do a liiittle limiting with the final, normalised mixdown, just to catch stray peaks. |
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| Viking Pillager |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
My only tip is to be confident in delivering the sound you expected to deliver just as a builder is confident delivering his work on your house to a finnished standard (although a second pair of ears can be useful in production and I would use a Mastering guy like Raphie here if the track was worth it)..
The tools youv'e been using are more than good enough imo. |
Youre right.. so much of this is just opinion/b.s. I am just curious as to what others who actually know something about this process do besides me - from what I am reading though it seems I am probably doing the best approach for me available given financials/time/know-how etc.
I tried the L3-16 two years ago - agree it gives a pretty warm response - although I found it a little more vintage than I was personally looking for. I have heard great things about the T-racks though. Ozone 5 I am totally 50/50 on - sometimes I think it is magical and other times I get the feeling even when I dont use the harmonic exciter that I am still getting loads of subtle fuzziness from their compressor/limiter.
@Raphie - I know you love your treated room and it may even be better than a girlfriend. But thats just unrealistic for me at the moment cost wise, not to mention the cost of monitors for such an endeavor would raise that cost tenfold. And thats assuming that my neighbors wouldnt revolt post-treatment blasting tunes. ALSO - I think chain "recipes" are bull too. HOWEVER I DO NOT believe for a second that there isnt at least one plugin/effect that you 90% of the time always use - say a high pass filter? I cmon man - we are all past the point of lecturing noobs here with ambiguous detail-stricken one liners. Based on your avatar and name on here, I am guessing you are the most experienced "mastering engineer" so, give us some info of use other than telling me about the one time you didnt do to a track lmao. Thanks for telling me nothing I didnt already know. I say that with a lot of love and high five lol. |
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| Viking Pillager |
| quote: | Originally posted by wayfinder
i don't really master, i try to mix well and then do a liiittle limiting with the final, normalised mixdown, just to catch stray peaks. |
Im in your boat atm wayfinder - I will highpass filter 20-30hz followed by hard limiter up to -6dB (likely -2 to -4dB range tho) and amplify up to -.3dB for gain make up. I do not normalize as I have read mixed opinions on that and the subtle distortion it can cause.
@raphie/butler - can you explain to us what the f normalization ACTUALLY does to the wave. Cuz it never seems to augment the wave visually and I cant seem to hear anything different but obviously, it must do SOMETHING??? |
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| Viking Pillager |
| quote: | Originally posted by Evolve140
It wouldn't be house/trance. I mean, that's not accurate. EDM mixing, or dance music mixing. House mixing these days is as different from trance as trance is to jungle, as an example. Anyway I digress...
This makes me wonder what would make an acceptable mastering chain, maybe just PSP VW with normal tape saturation, about 4+ dB and then perhaps a limiter? Just for previews I put VW on the master, load normal tape saturation, slightly tweak, add a few dB and then export. |
Trance and House def have different mix levels for the various sounds I agree - but mastering wise - how different could it really be considering both rely on sidechain basslines and punchy dynamics, ESP the jungle stuff which sounds sick live i might add. |
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| Viking Pillager |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
Recently completed a mix which required no mastering, just sayin. |
When you say this - does this mean you released a track that can be bought by people on say beatport for instance AND it wasnt mastered? Or is this just you creating a track that you felt didnt need to be mastered, but thats bc its just for personal and friendly consumption? |
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| Viking Pillager |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
If I were an alt, son, you be all thinkin' it wurnt me in no way and no how.
Wondering when and if I can get an invite to this mj sex camp bro. no homo lol
Bitch be trippin yo! :gsmile: |
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| wayfinder |
| quote: | Originally posted by Viking Pillager
Im in your boat atm wayfinder - I will highpass filter 20-30hz followed by hard limiter up to -6dB (likely -2 to -4dB range tho) and amplify up to -.3dB for gain make up. I do not normalize as I have read mixed opinions on that and the subtle distortion it can cause.
@raphie/butler - can you explain to us what the f normalization ACTUALLY does to the wave. Cuz it never seems to augment the wave visually and I cant seem to hear anything different but obviously, it must do SOMETHING??? |
I should clarify: normalizing at render in Live means rendering once, looking at the highest peak and then rendering again with a volume boost to make that highest peak 0dB. So, no upscale artifacts. |
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| Raphie |
What I do, I can not capture in a few lines.
I'l make an effort tomorrow to write a NO BUDGET paragraph on what make sense to DYI. however I wasn't being difficult, as MSZ pointed out too: the track dictates what it needs.
Your mindset needs to be you have an end in mind and should get as close to that in the mix. What the end in mind is, is a mix of desired dynamic range, tone and overal vibe of the track. On the other hand you would also like your track to be compatible and translate well on a variety of systems. The biggest determinator in that process is your monitoring experience, which in it's turn is depending on through what and where you listen. The reason I answered like i did was that you need to realize that the tools are the least concern. I can get you a better master with my stock Cubase plugs, than you with all the plugs you can collect. So yes I'm going to share some best practises, but please have a good thought about the bigger picture and perspective.
Always happy to help, it's not voodoo or dark magic :D |
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| Viking Pillager |
NO BUDGET paragraph. Im stealing that line. lamo
Looking forward to some educational excellence Mr. Raphie
But what you are saying makes perfect sense vibe/tone of the song etc. Im looking forward to the day where I have amassed enough software/gear to be able to pick and choose based on this tone/vibe philosophy. Brilliant actually - just requires a bit of an "amalgamy" of sorts or amassing a collection of some pretty pricey hardware&software comp/limiters/eqs etc.
"Willing to put out for a good master" - so many puns there lol |
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| Viking Pillager |
btw which cubase do you use?
I have no doubt u could get a better master than me - its definitely an entirely different game than the production end - hence why legitimate pro musicians still have other people do just the mastering after they create their tracks. And while it may potentially incorporate the use of the same effects and basic theory as the production end, its just different - like being a chef vs. a baker. They use the same equipment and a lot of the same ingredients but the method to the madness is completely specific to their own respective genres of culinary genius..
I have twelve plus years ofmaking music but realistically 0-1yr of "mastering" in any semblence of that term; keep it ambiguous so I dont insult true mastering engineers lol...
In some ways I feel like there are more ideological "rules" or principles to the production end than their are with the mastering end, in that as you said literally "anything goes" when it comes to the mastering end, its whatever sounds best, not a checklist of requirements for a proper mixdown. Whereas with the production side, yeah you need to know the rules so you can break em, but theres definitely some hard and fast Must's at the primal level of sound design, like waveshaping with brickwall filters,etc. You just dont have this type of mandatory checklist with mastering, which is why it is such an overwhelming bear of a task to learn, especially without technical academic education in the field of mastering. Which is also why I find it absolutely intriguing bc its like a different way of looking at the same endgoal. |
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| fluxburn |
I just bought some books on music production and bob katz mastering book. Like you lived produced for decades at this point. I have several approaches to mastering so far. I mix and master each song differently.
Sometimes I'll mix a song, eq and compress it so well, that I don't even use a multiband compressor or limiter on the track. Other times I'll just use extensive compression in the mix and then use a limiter/ multi band compressor to boost the volume at the end.
I think the biggest deal is just mixing the tracks. Of course after you learn how to mix better and better, it becomes part of the composing of the music. That's why so many who make electronic music might as well just master it also. Most mastering is digital today anyway. I mean of course buying a $5,000 compressor or 4 and processing through those will have some benefit, but in the end you digitally master all the levels and meter it.
I've read some stuff from mixing engineers, and while they have certain tricks they like, for instance on dude never uses reverb, only delay. Then again you can use delays like reverb. Seriously if you compress, eq each track and use sidechain compression all over the place, then eventually go into a series of multiband compressors and limiters then you can get a track as flat as possible.
Also if you are getting very precise, you can have compressor settings for different sections of the track and then adjust the volume levels so the sections sound at similar levels. I had a buddy who used to process tracks literally by cutting them by frequency and then working with those sections of a track independently. |
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