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Music as art vs. music as a product (pg. 2)
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| PivotTechno |
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| Bierheld |
The thing is with normal consumer products reviewing and criticising is more straightforward, as you can simply judge it on how well it does what it's supposed to do.
Art doesn't have a clear-cut purpose and is often meant to be provocative, making it a very polarizing thing by nature. This drives reviewers further towards the realm of opinion, but that still clashes with the influential status they tend to have. People put their trust in them, and may choose not to listen to something because of this which frustrates producers, especially if they do a rather lazy job. As you can tell from the this topic in the production forum: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...=2#.UNMw16y8HXQ |
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| Rodri Santos |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
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Lololol any support to the criticism would have to face with this.
Well i think if you consider music a product you have to "use it" i mean you can criticize a single track if you have listened to that track in its entire duration.
You can criticize an artist not by judging a single track you find but several more, his livesets etc...
There is also good criticism and bad criticism, thinks like the image above simply are laughable if people start criticising someone with arguments like this... this is an obvious fail but you can have several misconceptions from people like the statement "Avicii does techno music".
I'd like to quote AvB here "DOn't tell me this is , tell me this is because..." this is my point of view, people that say this is i completely ignore them, i ignore them too if they clearly haven't done an effort to value the "product" completely like judging a track only after listening the 1st minute.
If they said "1st minute is because has no structure, sounds are piercing..." i'd take them seriously on the contrary. |
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| paulversuspaul |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's irrelevant. Anyone who attacks the very act of criticism itself, rather than the content of that criticism, is is a cretinous wad from the moment they open their mouth or bash their keyboard. There is no "right" or "entitlement" needed to criticise. The only validation a criticism needs is found in its own content. |
Exactly! Good criticism has very little to do with the supposed qualifications of the writer and much more to do with the content of the actual criticism. Good criticism is akin to a piece of music or literature or cinema etc. in that the very best of it isnt just a simple piece of opinion but a coherent and thoughtful stand alone piece that seeks to go beyond simply reviewing something to actually developing a new way of looking at something, and by extension a new way of looking at the world. Best analogy i can give, is that the best pieces of criticism I know of, are sometimes written on works of art that I have actually never read or seen, yet I still get something powerful out of it.
Example 1: Mimesis
Example 2: The Tracking Shot in Kapo
Obviously, you cant read the former without getting the book, but anyone can read that essay by the late great Serge Daney. Honestly, it might be a little hard to understand unless you are a hard core cinephile as some of the underlying assumptions are based on the developments of the new wave in france and a culture of cinephilia that usually doesnt even get taught in most graduate film programs. |
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| frupertery |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
Doesn't the notion of a community conflict with the notion of an industry if the ones making the product are part of that community? |
I don't quite understand you. What kind of conflict are you talking about? Any community is always founded on some kind of economic order. |
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| Psyshell |
| quote: | Originally posted by frupertery
I don't quite understand you. What kind of conflict are you talking about? Any community is always founded on some kind of economic order. |
So what's the economic order of tranceaddict then? |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
So what's the economic order of tranceaddict then? |
you're poor and no one likes you. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
But my question is, considering that music is essentially a product, and has a price, doesn't that entitle people, as consumers, to have any opinion they like? |
Yes.
| quote: | | Does someone who defend an artist/release they like against critical remarks have a right to do so any more than the person making those remarks? |
Yes.
| quote: | | Is it really reasonable for an artist to attack someone for being critical of their work? |
No.
| quote: | | Aren't people (us), as consumers, entitled to express our opinions about music - regardless if it's positive or negative, without the fear of backlash or the need to defend ourselves? |
Yes and no. If you have strong opinions about something, you should also be able to clarify and elaborate upon them. It's easy to say you don't like something just because you don't like it, and to me that isn't fair criticism.
It's a complicated subject. As listeners, some of us being artists of our own, we generally have a feel for the amount of care and passion that goes into the music we listen to. So when you're being critical of it I think it's important to be aware of the work and effort. However, none of it should be excused from scrutiny and criticism. All art should be subjected to criticism, and has been for the most part. It should continue that way. I think criticism should be reasonable and proportionate, though. |
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| Psyshell |
My impression is, that part of the job of being an artist is being able to tell what type of reviewer each reviewer is when they're reviewing your work. Some people will hate everything, and it's really nothing to do with your work but it's actually them.
Likewise, some people will only say positive things, or will merely attempt to find the best thing about it to avoid saying anything negative. Or there's many other "reviewer types". As an artist they have to be able to get a balanced view of the quality of their work (and where it needs improvement) by balancing the views of different types of people. It also needs to be said that honestly, it doesn't matter how many haters you have, if all you want is some people to like it and some people do then not much else matters. |
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| Trance-MB |
Well, maybe not totally on topic, however..
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| PassiePassion |
Most artists never get a chance to release cos there are so many who create music these days.
So they go to places where people like their kind of music to see if they find folks like them.
So why knock such a dudes feet away and get him-her down.
If you don't like it just don't reply ,no one forced you to listen to it ,was free choice.
Critical comments they might even find educating.
But why be obvious in trying to hurt a person by insulting his skills.
There is a difference between criticism and trolling
Trolling is saying 21-12 doomsday live will end
Criticism is saying we get bad weather but we'll find a way to survive hahaha
On Economics ,Musicians have to.
I hate the maximizer war that has broken out last years.
Still like my unmaximized songs more.
But everyone else is making maximized songs
So if you don't then you wont hear back your song if you mix it with another.
Thus we musicians are forced to walk the same step and go along
Else no dj will be able to mix our music into other commercial music :eyes: |
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