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Happy happy Lira day! (pg. 3)
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| Quazar |
| Happy Birthday, Linguist! |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
You don't actually capitalize the 'u' here unless you're talking to god.
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Thanks for the update, as half the country probably doesn't know this, especially people about my age and above.
We learned to use "U" when talking to older people as you probably know. |
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| Bierheld |
| Really? That does surprise me a bit actually. Sounds more like a belgicism to me which is possible if you grew up in Limburg. Although I can't find info as to when the rules changed exactly, any later than the fifties let alone the seventies would surprise me. I'll ask around a bit. |
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| stren |
| Happy birthday mr smarty pants |
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| Lira |
Why am I not surprised my birthday thread led to a discussion about language? Also, I'm a T.A.-theist, so U're all God to me :D
Thanks/quyanaq, lads and lasses!
Edit: Seriously, though, I remember seeing the U capitalised for whatever reason in the past, and just assumed you always had to do it as in English (with the letter "I"). So there are rules for capitalisation, but they vary depending on the region? Interesting... and quite unexpected :p |
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| Bierheld |
Officially the u can be (but doesn't have to be) capitalised when referring to "someone of great reverence", which according to the "white book" - a book containing a more dynamic approach to spelling and grammar rules; an initiative from newspapers and independent language authorities as an alternative to the government issued "green book" - is either God or the monarch.
I suppose you know about the special "polite pronouns", like the German "sie" (which also used to be capitalised) or the French "vous". Which is why referring to someone with 'u' is called 'vousvoyeren', and referring to someone with 'jij' is called 'tutoyeren'.
Originally U came from the term "Uwe edelheit" (your nobleness) introduced in the 17th century, which was kept in use by upper-class nobility in the 18th and 19th century but kept losing letters: 'Uwe edt > Uw(e) Ed. > U Ed > U E. (Pronounced as uwée) and finally Uwe and U. Which had a thing to do with the word u, the object-form of the equally archaic 'gij', still used in Belgium I believe.
So they're actually different words.
In the seventies however. The time of new left, worker emancipation and student protests, even the normal polite pronoun form of 'u' was seen as a vile reminder of old hierarchic practices and abandoned by parts of the country and even now it's under constant discussion although generally it has again become accepted practice.
Using 'U' instead of 'u' for normal people however, from what I can find is (rarely) done in Belgium to add even more humbleness. The Flemish tend to be more polite in their wordings anyway. |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| My ex in Tilburg taught me that it was more a courtesy, as in talking to someone older than you or someone in a position of authority. :gsmile: |
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| Bierheld |
| quote: | Originally posted by wienerschnitzel
My ex in Tilburg taught me that it was more a courtesy, as in talking to someone older than you or someone in a position of authority. :gsmile: |
Did you ask him about u or U? Size matters here! |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| Hmm... I thought it was u if you were being polite but U if it was a senior etc. I'll be the first one to admit I hardly know any Dutch! |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by wienerschnitzel
My ex in Tilburg taught me that it was more a courtesy, as in talking to someone older than you or someone in a position of authority. :gsmile: |
I already wondered why you replied to Bierheld's congrats :)
That's how I learned it. I also asked my older colleagues, one is 44 and reads many books and one is 58. Both didn't know about the change from U to u.
Actually I liked it as U. In Germany they also use Ihr and Sie this way.
Bierheld, I far as I know even here in South-Limburg we followed the Dutch grammar rules (30 years ago). With the Belgians near the border we only share our dialect partly (and roots). |
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| Bierheld |
| I've asked older folk as well (50+), and they all learned to use the lower case u. Looks like the southern provinces were pulling a number on us here then, maybe the Germans decapitalized the sie more recently, causing confusion in neighbouring provinces. |
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| Frenkieee |
I never use U, and I'm from the South. So much for your theory then ;)
Funny thing: we use(d) to capitalize the U and Germans capitalize Sie.. where Americans capitalize the I. Egocentric much? :toothless |
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