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Reverb question (pg. 2)
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| echosystm |
I wouldn't get an all-in-one thing.
Can't go past the Valhalla reverbs or a convolution plugin with good 3rd party IRs.
+1 to Fabfilter Pro-L for a limiter. A good modern limiter will have all the features below.
1. Oversampling
2. Inter-sample peak detection (requires oversampling)
3. Look-ahead
Waves L1 and L2 are very limited (lulz) by todays standards. |
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| TranceElevation |
| L2 colors heavily, but that's not the worst. The thing destroys your dynamics even when apparently there is minimal gain reduction. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| if you are a moron who doesn't understand what a limiter is for. Sure. |
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| TranceElevation |
| Illuminate me my brother. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Seven Doxian
Thanks for the reply guys...ill definitely check that site out....but while I got u here how are you guys setting up your reverbs ? Sends or inserts?....I messaged 4 trance legends and was pleasently surprised they all replied !!!! Sean tyas , Moonsouls, Arctic Moon and Daniel Kandi. ...they all put the reverb on the insert which surprised me....Kandi was the only one who wouldnt say but did tell me that it depends upon the DAW....Tyas also added he recommended mid side eq. ...All super nice guys very helpful....Arctic moon uses lexicon...Moonsouls was using Artsacoustic but found it too buggy and now uses warmverb.... |
I am ing amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts. May they're just lazy and have ample processing power to justify endless discrete inserts but it's really bad engineering practice to do it that way.
It's a good habit to get in to what Beamrider suggests; set up 2 or 3 reverbs on aux sends. It helps give a cohesive sound and saves on system resources at the same time. |
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| TranceElevation |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I am ing amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts. May they're just lazy and have ample processing power to justify endless discrete inserts but it's really bad engineering practice to do it that way.
It's a good habit to get in to what Beamrider suggests; set up 2 or 3 reverbs on aux sends. It helps give a cohesive sound and saves on system resources at the same time. |
You tell em bro, you tell em...teach those newbs how to make their music! |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceElevation
Illuminate me my brother. |
A limiter should be catching the 0 crossing or near enough peaks. You should not really be doing more than 1-3 db of gr. the reason it has a bad reputation is people assumed that threshold fader was an adjust till phat styled plugin. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I am ing amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts. |
I use inserts a lot. Consider this...
Drums with reverb send A.
Bass with reverb send B.
Drums and bass bussed with a compressor.
Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists. Your only options are to use inserts or make a compromise and put one reverb in equal amounts on both instruments (send from the bus).
You'll get this problem pretty much any time you bus two different sounds. Eg. one instrument with delay send and another with reverb send.
What's the problem? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
I use inserts a lot. Consider this...
Drums with reverb send A.
Bass with reverb send B.
Drums and bass bussed with a compressor.
Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists. Your only options are to use inserts or make a compromise and put one reverb in equal amounts on both instruments (send from the bus).
You'll get this problem pretty much any time you bus two different sounds. Eg. one instrument with delay send and another with reverb send.
What's the problem? |
I don't know what you mean by "Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists". The sounds exist; they are just discrete and different from the combined drum and bass buss signal. You still have the aux returns to balance against the buss. If you're saying you want the return of each (i.e. each one to have a different reverb included prior to bussing) then that is EXACTLY the situation where you choose inserts instead of sends. You could also put stages of busses but it's more efficient to just use inserts.
What is the problem indeed?
Now having said this, this is essentially the exception that proves the rule. You can do 90% of your FX with sends. From what the OP mentioned about those producers, he's stating they don't use sends, which maybe is the case and that works for them for the reasons I stated but I find it lazy and if anything more time consuming - once you have your sends setup, you just dial it in, rather than for every track having to find a reverb, create, load up or tweak a patch just for that one instrument or sound. Also bad practice to get in to in case you ever work with an engineer or real studio or anywhere that actually has hardware....because you can't load up 40 instances of hardware can you? |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I don't know what you mean by "Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists". |
What I mean is that the reverb will contain responses from transients that have been compressed (ie. they no longer exist).
Anyway, my point is that there's nothing wrong with using inserts. I generally end up with only 1 send, due to routing issues like this. Your recent posts on this topic read like "YOU HAVE TO USE TWO REVERB SENDS AND ONE DELAY SEND OR YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG". I do understand your point though. :stongue: |
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| evo8 |
| I use an equal mix of inserts and aux tracks for various fx, shoot me :) |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
What I mean is that the reverb will contain responses from transients that have been compressed (ie. they no longer exist).
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That's what I thought you meant but I couldn't tell from your antipodean pidgen English :p
Still, it's a pretty rare instance when you want the uncompressed but reverbed signal mixed with the compressed non reverbed signal, and as I said, that is the typical, albeit incredibly seldom needed exception to the rule.
I can also think of at least two other ways to route around it and least personally, if I felt I needed to change the dynamics of a sound (either by bussing together or discretely etc) then I probably wouldn't want the original uncompressed sound going to the buss as well, if you see what I mean?
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
Anyway, my point is that there's nothing wrong with using inserts. I generally end up with only 1 send, due to routing issues like this. Your recent posts on this topic read like "YOU HAVE TO USE TWO REVERB SENDS AND ONE DELAY SEND OR YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG". I do understand your point though. :stongue: |
Lol, I suppose my stance on this is a direct response to people like the OP who don't use a single send then wonder why their pretty good spec computer can't handle anything mroe than 15 tracks.
I use insets all the time, but time and place and right situation. It was a very seasoned engineer who pointed it out to me and it stuck; he explained it comes down to efficiency. Each time you use an insert, ask yourself if this could be an aux send instead. It saves you a ton of CPU headroom when ITB, and it's crucial when you're working with hardware for two big reasons, the first is that you only have a finite amount of hardware (you can load/magic up another lexicon 480 if you just have one physical unit) and the second is that having to patch and manage tons of insert points can get really time consuming. It's also bad practice as most hardware doesn't have wet/dry balance so an insert is 100% wet.
It's just my preference but I like to work ITB as if I'm in a hardware environment and that means if ever I have to be a real studio, I'm not going "how do you do this again?"
Again, I have no problem using inserts but they're meant for a specific function, and as the OP experienced, when you don't know the why or the how, your workflow is badly affected. |
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