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Producers who absolutely fail at DJing
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| Vida1003 |
I don't know if this belongs in the DJ booth section or what so sorry if it's in the wrong place. This is something that has been bothering me since I decided to learn to DJ myself a few years ago and it reached it's boiling point last night. So I'm listening to/watching some Trancefusion 2014 and ASOT 650 set's while I'm doing my schoolwork. I'm hearing mixes by guys who are ranked by several sources as the top DJ's in the world and what do I hear? song's not transitioning well,blending,or sounding harmonic at all, terribly out of place volume dips for no reason at all other than to make it sound like the guy did something,effects horribly overused like filters where they don't belong and flanger's all over the place, and to top it off the transition between songs either sounds like they hit stop on deck 1 and then hit play on deck 2,or brought the up fader on 1 down to 0 and the one on deck 2 to max in a rapid shift. Then to my relief I listen to a John Askew set and the mix is just beautiful,It sounds like one song played for an hour and a half and just changed progessively through that time, the mix builds up energy and gains more and more in time with each tune and then peaks at a point where it all releases then winds down.It's textbook. But people are going absolutely ing nuts while the formerly mentioned sets are playing, and the latter is not a top 100 DJ nor does he have notoriety with any top sources for his DJ skills. Are people really that ignorant.
Do people even realize that DJing and producing a song are 2 seperate acts and require 2 seperate skill sets. I mean I know DJ mag top 100 is a popularity contest but are people really that ing stupid? If I know construction and know how to physically build a house can I get behind some software and design one too and get paid top dollar for it? No, so why can someone make a beatport chart topper and get behind the decks in a world renown club or at a festival? I'm so stumped.. |
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| Adam420 |
| Yep, it's reality, and it sucks. And this goes for all genres of dance music. |
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| MSZ |
| Because they didnt produce their track in the first place. If you've been producing anything remotely melodic for years and you cant notice harmonic key clashes there is something drastically wrong or you're taking a gigantic piss. |
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| Vida1003 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
Because they didnt produce their track in the first place. If you've been producing anything remotely melodic for years and you cant notice harmonic key clashes there is something drastically wrong or you're taking a gigantic piss. |
I fully agree. I always say that if you are a seasoned producer you can learn the basics of DJing inside of an hour because you understand how the music is built/crafted. Which is why I can't understand how some of these guys suck so bad. But like you said about them not producing their track in the first place. So they can't produce, they cant DJ properly..WTF are they getting paid for, to look good? |
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| inversoundzzz |
personally, i dont think it's possible to become a good electronic music producer unless you know how to dj technically well first, you dont understand anything about song strutcture that is special to dance music...you need to understand transitions, phrasing, builds and releases and beat timings...it's not easy..now if you're just some guy who presses play on a cdj and then presses stop and play again, like mixing at a wedding or something....then I would say you dont neeed to know about technical djing.
i agree with you that it's annoying to listen to a mix that isnt mixed properly. the whole point of trance djing any way is to keep a continuous flow to the mix...
but you also have to realise that most trance fans don't even notice small mistakes or transitions that are out of time. it's only people who know how to mix.
but finally, there is the other quality of a DJ...which the ability to play to the crowd and in general, some trance DJ are like a bubbly personality, like if youre listening to dash berlin or something. they probably dont even care about technicalities
i have an introverted personaluty, i'm not the bubbly, armin type of person who is basically like naturally on a happy pill. but i think that i am very technically good/i would get pissed off whenever i would make a mistake.
so i think while technicals is important for a dj, you cant be totally focused on the technicals always, because you have to be adaptive to the crowd.
but then again, you would normally have a mix pre-arranged. so you're not going to improvise much. as a trance dj, it depoends like what the venue is, what the crowd size is, but if you are making a mix that you wantr to listen to in the car or somehting, you want tit to sound technically good.
but even with all that, lots of trance today is so big drop oriented and not really about the overall flow any more, it's like big room, so being good with transitions is even less oimportant
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| Vida1003 |
| It's funny you mention Dash Berlin because he's one of the main guys I Was talking about. Even before I started DJing It annoyed me when a mix didn't flow right. When I would go clubbing,when the DJ would do something like a stop/play transition or something that breaks the flow of the mix I would loose my vibe and go have a drink. If the DJ sucked I would leave. I guess at festivals it doesn't make that big of a difference. But on the grand scheme of things what bothers me the most is that DJing isn't being treated as a skill now. It's just something you can do. I'm sure most of you have seen/read the deadmau5 interview where he says "We all push play". DJing has just gone down the drain lately :( |
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| Adam420 |
| What kind of trance do you play, out of curiosity? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vida1003
No, so why can someone make a beatport chart topper and get behind the decks in a world renown club or at a festival? I'm so stumped.. |
You'll be very hard pressed to name an international DJ who doesn't also produce. Productions have been the way of getting big DJ gigs for over 20 years, even in the more serious scenes. I think it's total bull that people get gigs at the expense of better DJs just because they've had big tracks out, but when I see a DJ name on a flyer, the first thing I think of is their own tracks. It's just how our minds work: you see a name on a flyer whose productions you love and you're going to get excited. There'll generally be an expectation that they will play in a style similar to their own productions, and perhaps play some of their own stuff as well. As ed-up as it is that terrible producer-DJs are hogging the slots that hard-working DJs should be occupying, we all fall for the mentality that drives it. |
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| meriter |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
Because they didnt produce their track in the first place. If you've been producing anything remotely melodic for years and you cant notice harmonic key clashes there is something drastically wrong or you're taking a gigantic piss. |
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| Trance-M |
| quote: | Originally posted by inversoundzzz
personally, i dont think it's possible to become a good electronic music producer unless you know how to dj technically well first, you dont understand anything about song strutcture that is special to dance music...you need to understand transitions, phrasing, builds and releases and beat timings...
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I disagree. I think you don't need any DJ skills at all to become a good producer. A good producer can hear all those elements and in my opinion doesn't need to know how to DJ first. |
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| MSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-M
I disagree. I think you don't need any DJ skills at all to become a good producer. A good producer can hear all those elements and in my opinion doesn't need to know how to DJ first. |
Have you ever Dj'd and produced? The skills come hand-in-hand by nature. Be it level matching, eqing, dynamic matching. Producing is microdjing and visa versa. |
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| inversoundzzz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-M
I disagree. I think you don't need any DJ skills at all to become a good producer. A good producer can hear all those elements and in my opinion doesn't need to know how to DJ first. |
Well, I guess what everyone thinks of as a "good" producer is subjective any way. Maybe, this question is better:
Would you rather go to a show where the DJ plays all amazing songs but there is no flow to the show...
or would you rather go to ashow where the DJ plays all decent songs but the mix is close to perfect in terms of rising falling emotion etc.
I mean part of being a goo dDJ is picking the right songs for the right times, you don't put a 4 bar arp gunfire type of techy song (with no real character or emotion) at the climax of your set, you would put it at the start to get everyone amped up. Or put it on the slow build towards climax somehwerer. You put an 8 or 16bar arp euphoric type song at the climax. (at least I would)
It;s not just technical transitions, it's song selection as well and song placement.
To know this kind of stuff I think you need to know how to DJ. (just my opinion)
So wouold you rather listen to a set where they might not all be your fav songs but the songs all fit together? Or would you like the set that has more songs you think are really good, but the set itself just isnt very coheseive.
Really I dont think that someone who doesnt really care about the overall feel of the set or the transitions cares about it any way. they will only care that they hear whta they deem as "good" songs by their fav producer (turned DJ). So it all works out in the end. Because someone who is so anal about a technically good set will not go to see a producer whoclearly doesnt know how to dj. whereas somone who just likes songs and prolly doesnty notice the overall feel of the set will go to see any producer because of the songs doesnt matter about the flow.
whatever works for you |
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