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Production related skills that all dance music artist should know ?
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| LoveHate |
| So this up coming week I am starting a engineering course that will be taught by one of Chris lord alges past apprentices , I just got finished the orientation and I'm pretty stoked , even though its a 2 hour bus ride there and back for me each day I know it will be worth it just by the shear knowledge that's been presented before me during my introduction , Well I wanted to compile a list of things to ask, so my money doesn't go to waste , obviously I can just google the terms as they come or lpok it up on SOS for example and in that way this thread would be useful for others as well , it's just that I will have a hands on approach to it , which is what I feel that I need at this point . The dude comes from a old school background so things like mic placements and tape machines are more his "foray" but he also regularly does live shows & hip hop. I wanna stray away from things like sidechain and delve a little but more into it . I already have a rough idea of what id like to learn such as training my ears but getting some more insight on things would be great even though it will probably come up during our sessions ... so let me know of this is a stupid idea for a thread . :stongue: |
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| cryophonik |
| Ask him to provide a detailed technical explanation of hysteresis and angel's share, and how to optimize their settings when trying to restore dynamics using upward expansion. |
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| LoveHate |
| Whoa firs time I'm hearing those words but thanks definitely adding it to the list . |
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| Looney4Clooney |
you aren't gonna learnt anything production related. EDM guys are pretty much cutting edge.
Which is a good thing because that is something you learn on your own. Schools count when you need facilities and you need those to record. So if you have no interest in recording, i would off before wasting your money.
recording is not production. It is like playing an instrument. It can help, but it is something completely different.
The way to get the most of these things is to assume they won't teach you anything and that the your ability to use the facilities as much as you can to get the experience and meet the people is the pay off.
So right from the start, learn to help. Don't worry about touching a console. You will be moving mic stands and taking measurements.
you will need to learn how to read music. Learn what instruments are playing. This sounds weird but dance people probably can't tell a trombone from rusty tuba or a french horn.
I would start off with learning how to roll a cable. There is a special technique that they will teach and you don't want to be the guy that can't do it. And that is usually day one.
Start reading about recordings you like, what was used, have a lexicon of mics and what they are good on. You need to be an encyclopedia in a way.
There is really too much to list. A recording degree really requires about 2 years of pre courses i.e. physics and audio related stuff, and then 3o-4 years of study. The only programs that do that are programs labelled tonemeister.
You can learn a lot if you want. But it won't be production. So don't try to find info in that area. That is the easy stuff.
And after 4 years , you really know nothing. Its like any other topic. You just open the flood gate at that point.
I you are in LA, i can get you a runner job. Alao, Rann lives there fill time and he knows more people including the one person I'm thinking of that makes most of these engineers look like girl scouts. You won't be paid but you will learn way more and if you don't wet your pants the first 2 months, you will get paid. |
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| LoveHate |
Wish I lived I live in la , would totally take you up on that , unfortunately I am in vancouver which is kind of is the Hollywood of Canada.
But yeah always been up for doing the intership thing as long as I got to be in a studio atmosphere , but. I think there's even dudes with degrees begging to get that job . nowadays as well :haha: you mentioned that I won't take home anything , and producing dance music is entirely personal, and while I do find that to be true , I feel as though once I found what all of the machines do like the Api's and the neves and ssl's than I can work around that to get my own sound and create the "lovehate" signature bundle or whatever :lol: I don't know I just see a course on engineering useful maybe. I obsessed with translatabilty. |
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| DJ RANN |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Ask him to provide a detailed technical explanation of hysteresis and angel's share, and how to optimize their settings when trying to restore dynamics using upward expansion. |
Very well played ;)
@lovehate - Richie is kinda right but there are some things you can learn and the good thing will be that they are real studio aspects. I went to Engineering school in Toronto (that's how I can understand what you two are saying) and they really only focussed on real studio environments.
Mic placement is always useful; it makes you understand about why instruments sound the way they do when recorded and little nuances that you can't read in a book. If you ever work in a studio, it's going to be damn useful to be able to walk in there and mic up a large drum kit without blinking (it's one of the things that got me hired in only a month of running).
What you really want to learn from this are those little pearls of wisdom that only working engineers know. It's like the "shortcuts" they do with their eyes closed that together make up their methodology of engineering and their signature sound.
It's those pearls that you will count on time and time again to make things go the way you want rather than struggling with sounds for hours.
I would ask for quick and effective EQ tips, fast ways to setup up routing templates to get working fast, then basic balancing tips*.
These were the things that made the biggest impression on me when I first starting working with major name engineers. Things like how they arrange all their tracks in logical groups really fast (again it's a mindset thing that you can apply to nay project and that's how the big boys in the industry get so good because they don't waste time on that ).
How they EQ certain sounds - working with the guy Richie is talking about it completely rocked the way I thought about EQ. It was so fast and so assured because he already knew what to cut and what to boost and how all those EQ's would affect each other, like drawing a map of your home town - you know where everything goes because the parts go right next to each other. Again, once you can do this mindset thing, it doesn't matter what gets thrown at you as it's all about applying the method.
(*)by basic balancing, I mean getting a rough mix of levels and pans down, real fast.
Especially for what we do (so many other things at once from sound design to composing to engineering etc), being able to get a quick working balance down from the first grouping of tracks can literally save you hours of time ing about with tiny adjustments trying to do it as you go.
It lets you work on the structure and arrangement, then do the final mix as a later stage.
Again, all about the method.... ;) |
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| LoveHate |
sounds like i have bit off more than i can chew, i just want to sound like deadmau5 and wolfgang gartner damn it !
but yeah its funny you mention that, so far a lot of what i have got from the class is not going in and learning how to twist this or that knob, but getting a feel for everything , and learning how to do analog esque things with just a logic eq channel, definitely going to bring that up a lot more because its a lot more than just low cutting everything. :)
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
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:whip: |
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| Trancelover03591 |
| I don't know much about recording studios (but I am interested). With separate credits for: written by, recorded by, arranged by and mixed by I don't see what a producer is doing specifically in a studio environment unless it is more of a final decision maker type of role for all of the phases. Also, I realize in many cases one person does several if not all of those roles. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by LoveHate
sounds like i have bit off more than i can chew, i just want to sound like deadmau5 and wolfgang gartner damn it !
but yeah its funny you mention that, so far a lot of what i have got from the class is not going in and learning how to twist this or that knob, but getting a feel for everything , and learning how to do analog esque things with just a logic eq channel, definitely going to bring that up a lot more because its a lot more than just low cutting everything. :)
:whip: |
those guys are great producers but would be fired the first day as a runner. Its just different skills. Joel would be a terrible engineer just based on how he deals with people which is a big part of the job.
it is all related but some stuff is perhaps more related ? I mean all those classical chops are completely worthless in EDM. I can use maybe 1%. But i never set out to be anything other than someone that really likes music.
I say just try it. You never know. Unless it is an actual program. Then maybe ask to sit in on some classes. |
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