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Questions about Compression (pg. 2)
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| Trancelover03591 |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
A couple of points:
The vast majority of a mix's loudness comes from the mix, not the mastering. If you ask a mastering engineer to bring a bad mix up to "competitive levels", you're going to end up with a crunchy mess. So if you want a clean, loud mix, that's your responsibility as the mix engineer.
Talking about compression in general terms is meaningless, and dangerous. Some people may read it and think they're learning something, and then a month later we get someone writing a ridiculous statement about compression in a forum post, because "that's what they've learned". Talking in generalities is especially dangerous with regard to compression, since in the first couple of years of mixing experience, while one's ears are improving, it's more difficult to hear the unwanted side-effects. EQ, distortion, delay effects are typically easier for the ears to pick up on.
However, this is understandable - in the first couple of years, some of us only think of compression in these general terms, and hence only apply them in these general terms. We may simply say "route all basses into a group, and apply 2 dBs of compression with the threshold a bit under where I'm seeing the maximum level hit, and let's make the attack as fast as possible. There, done". We don't stop and specifically analyse our sounds and say to ourselves "that mid bass is drifting in and out of the mix, I need to make that more solid", then work out if compression is the correct tool to use to fix the problem (it could have some modulation running over some parameter, which could be removed), then work out the specific compression settings for that sound.
We need to identify the attack transients of each sound we're compressing, and whether we want to retain those transients or not. Especially for snares, hi-hats, if we run them through a compressor with a fast attack time, those sounds are going to become quite dull, depending on the other compressor settings. In terms of the release, we need to be able to hear whether the compressor's "pumping" aligns with the song's groove, or works against it. Setting an incorrect release time can kill a song's groove. The ratio and threshold work in tandem, and depend on the answers to "how much do I want to even this out?" and "at what times do I want this sound to be uncompressed?"
Also, so far the discussion hasn't touched on sidechain compression at all. It's quite common for a sound to be "evened out" within itself, then sent into another compressor so that it gets out of the way of the kick, or the main lead, or some other element of the mix it may clash with. Sidechain compression is more straightforward, with the main aims being allowing the main sound to come through cleanly, while retaining/enhancing the song's overall groove.
Once you've worked enough with compressors and understand exactly what you want to do to a specific sound, and how the various controls are going to influence the sound, compressors change from "mysterious black boxes which magically embiggen and glue sounds" to really straightforward effective tools which help in creating really solid mixes.
In terms of the OP's original setup - without knowing specifically which sounds you have in each group, and which specific compression settings are meant by "lite/moderate", whether any of the compressors are being side-chained, and whether you're using the compressors only for function, or whether you're also using them for adding tone, I have no idea whether it'll work for you or not. Each sound, each mix is different, so you're the only one who'll be able to answer that question. |
Thanks for all this. I will take time soon to read through it well. I just want to point out that I am not implying I am looking for a way to haphazardly throw compression on and say "let the mastering engineer sort out the bad mixing". It is more, I am trying to conservatively apply a minimal amount and have the mastering engineer take care of a soft track. |
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| derail |
Yep, no problems. My post wasn't responding only to your post. It's more a response to many posts where compression is talked about in very non-specific ways, which as I said can be very dangerous, if someone thinks they're learning something from it.
The book "mixing with your mind" contains the best approach that I've come across to setting up a compressor and hearing what it's doing to the sound. I recommend it.
On mastering, even if a guy has "hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment", they're still working for you, and it's still up to you to make sure they give you what you want. Because they can definitely run your mix through a high end compressor and take it somewhere you didn't want it to go. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
The book "mixing with your mind" contains the best approach that I've come across to setting up a compressor and hearing what it's doing to the sound. I recommend it.
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+1, its the most detailed explanation of compression ive seen, with a load of examples of compression usage |
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| future_newbie |
| Would you mind sharing that "mysterious" explanation to be plebs please? |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by future_newbie
Would you mind sharing that "mysterious" explanation to be plebs please? |
its too much to type here - as i said its quite detailed, if your really interested in compression then id buy that book |
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| derail |
I googled the book/chapter and found this on one of the kvr forums:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=315536
I don't agree with everything the poster has said (stating that if a compressor is working on a sound throughout a song, that that's called overcompression, as if it's a fact. It's not, that's not what overcompression means).
But I'd recommend, if possible, that people get the book with the full explanation. |
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| Teezdalien |
| Stav's book is an excellent reference for whole lot of different studio techniques, compression being just one. Many of his approaches seem unorthodox but actually work. Actually I think anyone serious about studio work should have this book, or at least have read it. His monthly articles in Audio Technology magazine here in Oz are worth reading too, providing some great insights and techniques. |
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| future_newbie |
| Stav's book is pointless cause I don't know anyone who made it thanks to that book. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by future_newbie
Stav's book is pointless cause I don't know anyone who made it thanks to that book. |
cos its all about "making it", right??? :rolleyes: |
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| inversoundzzz |
if a compressor is working on a sound throughout a song, that that's called overcompression[QUOTE]
yea i dont agree with that statement....yes some songs are actually overcompressed and it is just unprofessional mix....but some people are those types who just think that compression is the most evil thing in music and they are deadset against all the new music and loudness war stuff....imo i'm obviously not part of that group lol...."overcompression" is largely a matter of taste if it's being used well. and i dont think you can get a modern dance music sound without it....maybe if you are recording an acoustuc guitar solo piece you could but not a dance song . just my taste though I like music to be as loud and thumping as possible...and with the soft revoultion and the ability to stack and waterfall compressors, it gives you that awesome ability to blow someones head off with loudness....lol
but as i think mozart said....the silence between the notes is equally as important as the notes in a song... |
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| derail |
The way I'd define overcompression is "compression which is unintentionally noticeable".
For some genres, heavy pumping compression is completely fine. It's when it's used in a way which detracts from the listening experience, for a large proportion of listeners who like the genre being listened to, that I'd consider it to be overcompression. |
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| scorpradio |
Just curious here to see what your thoughts are about this.
At the 1:59 mark of this song,is this an example of over compression?
And although it was purposeful, could this be an example of over compression but done in a manner that is interesting enough to a listener
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