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What Makes a DJ Set Flow (pg. 2)
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One of my favourite ever essential mixes was from Tall Paul in 1999....
If you look at the tracklist on paper, it really shouldn't really 'flow' as such....
That being said, the fact that the mix in hindsight goes against the grain compared to many of todays 'mainstream' DJs highlights that the 'art' is clearly out of the window in a lot of cases.
The 'science' part today is like a chemistry set for 5 years old compared to years ago when sets were an A-level quantam nuclear physic exam in terms of how DJs were more creative.
Yes. It was better back in my day :wtf:
Intro - "The Long Good Friday" (The Freezer Scene)
Chemical Brothers - "Heyboy Heygirl" (Virgin)
Soulgrabber 4 - "So Ulero" (Stickman)
Underworld - "Rez" (Junior Boys Own)
Mauro Picotto - "Pulsar" (Knukleuz)
Sabres of Paradise - "Smokebelch" (Sabres of Paradise)
Chicane - "Saltwater" (Extravaganza)
Katcha - "Touched by God" (Hooj Choons)
Basement Jaxx - "Same Old Show" (XL)
Circle Sounds - "Higher Statement" (Junior Boys Own)
Sun Club - "Wet Suit" (Incredible)
Boogie Nights Film - "Last Scene"
Art Of Trance - "Madagascar" (Platipus)
AMP - "The Future Is Ours" (Pure)
Camisra - "Let Me Show You [Jonesy Remix]" (VC)
The Who - "Pinbal Wizard" (Epic)
Mauro Picotto - "Lizard" (VC)
Binary Finary - "1999" (Positiva)
V-One - "Dead Cities" (Green Martian)
DJ Jean - "The Launch" (Digidance)
Yomanda - "Synth & Strings" (Manifesto)
Tall Paul - "Be There" (Duty Free)
Laurent Garnier - "Crispy Bacon" (F. Comm)
The Beatles - "Taxman" (Apple)
Jam & Spoon - "Odyessy 2 Anyoona" (Sony)
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - "Sink Scene"
Blanks & Jones - "Cream [Paul Van Dyk Remix]"
Baby Blue - "Too Loud" (Duty Free)
Space Brothers - "Legacy" (Manifesto) |
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| JonDC |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
The difference is that Sasha has, in theory, constructed a set that would engage the kind of dancefloor he's playing for more successfully than the set Tiesto put together.
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But it doesn't though - Tiesto had more fans than Sasha - he used to fill up big football stadiums etc with people going mental. He engages his crowd just as well or better than Sasha, despite not 'flowing' as well.
To me you seem to be suggesting that flow = effectiveness. But I think it is one of the elements that makes a set effective, but not the only one. And how important it is to the overall effectiveness depends on the needs of the crowd. Flow is important to engage me personally (I'm a bit obsessed with it) but not everyone |
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| rubez |
with any half decent dj, the flow is theirs to kill. not necessarily to make.
dj's like judge jules are just cobbling tracks together.
also, harmonic mixing should die in a fire. the dj should not be looking at any criteria for what to mix in next other than what feels natural. |
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| JonDC |
| quote: | Originally posted by rubez
also, harmonic mixing should die in a fire. the dj should not be looking at any criteria for what to mix in next other than what feels natural. |
Frustratingly I agree with you that using keys as a primary tool to select the next record is a poor way to DJ. That's just for me though - other DJs can make it work. The point of this thread is to try and figure out what exactly it is that makes the next track feel natural. What are the things that result in a fluid mix?
To some people, the key of the record is a major factor in making transitions fluid, and are therefore a natural tool to make the set flow. There are some DJs who make it work very well for them too. I know djdk from this forum uses them, so does System_J. They always get lot's of praise on how their sets flow
| quote: | Originally posted by rubez
with any half decent dj, the flow is theirs to kill. not necessarily to make. |
I'd be very interested to hear you elaborate on this. You think the status quo is that tunes will flow together unless the DJ s it up? I don't understand? |
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| rubez |
any good dj will naturally pick the incoming track well. it is then theirs to up the flow by making a dodgy transition or other mistake.
flow for me isn't harmonic mixing. although it sounds very effective, it is restrictive. and the fact is, it's cheating to an extent... i mean, it ought to sound good, right?
flow is a starting point and and end point - moving through a range of styles and energies in that journey, and doing it in such a way that it sounds natural. great eq'ing is important - but is not always the backbone. it doesn't have to be long drawn out mixes either, and i feel there can be a dramatic shift at points without interrupting the 'flow'.
elements of the incoming track can teased or suggested in the run up to a transition - sometimes well in advance, even a few tracks beforehand. this could help with less 'compatible' tracks - easing them in. do this well and you may not even notice you were listening to part of the track long before you ever recognised it consciously. |
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| JonDC |
| quote: | Originally posted by rubez
elements of the incoming track can teased or suggested in the run up to a transition - sometimes well in advance, even a few tracks beforehand. this could help with less 'compatible' tracks - easing them in. do this well and you may not even notice you were listening to part of the track long before you ever recognised it consciously. |
That's a good idea
| quote: | Originally posted by rubez
any good dj will naturally pick the incoming track well. it is then theirs to up the flow by making a dodgy transition or other mistake.
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Maybe but the point I'm getting at is, what is it that a good DJ has learned that will guide them to naturally play a good fluid set, that a poor or inexperienced DJ hasn't?
| quote: | Originally posted by rubez
flow for me isn't harmonic mixing. although it sounds very effective, it is restrictive. and the fact is, it's cheating to an extent... i mean, it ought to sound good, right?
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Yes, I think harmonic mixing is restrictive - that's why I don't do it. But cheating? Naa, not at all. Whatever process you go to to make sure you select a good track that flows well (besides maybe playing identical strings of tunes to other DJs), it's all good. Even if key matching does tell you that two tracks ought to sound good together (which it doesn't necessarily), there are still an infinite number of options of tunes to play that are in that key, and some will be better for your flow than others. Also, even if you don't consciously mix in key, sometimes you will select two tracks that are in key. Are you saying that the only reason that isn't cheating is because you didn't realise? |
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| rubez |
you basically said it yourself, experience is the only 'training' you need to create flow. listening to a -ton of dance music and mixes, because you love it, is how you get there. it can't be forced.
as for harmonic mixing, you will just happen to mix in key a lot (if you are any good) naturally.
but if you are referring to a chart or some sort of aid, and you structure your set around this, then i'd definitely consider that cheating when it comes to creating flow - you have just dehumanised and manufactured it.
no way should key be the deciding factor when coming to choosing the next track - to even consciously restrict your pool of tracks for this purpose is lame. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
I still don't follow. Are you saying the "flow" of a set that the OP is trying to pin down is related to effects like tension/release etc. as they apply to music NOT designed for a dancefloor? That wasn't the impression I got from the talk of mix CDs, grooves, energy levels and so forth, but it sounds interesting, nonetheless. |
Well, I think those effects are quite universal. We still talk about ambient sets as having flow, don't we? When I make a mix that isn’t intended for dancing I still take the same things into account. For example, letting a track wind right down to almost nothing and then cueing the next track right from its start takes a lot of intensity out of the music, whereas mixing those tracks so one starts to reach a crescendo as soon as the other is starting to wind down will create a far more concentrated effect. The intensity here might be a mood, an emotion or an ambience rather than physical intensity, but the principles are the same. |
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| PaULiN0 |
| YO man a dj set gotta have lyrics that rhyme in motion holmes. That is what flow is brotha. |
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| Sykonee |
All these words used, when the answer is so simple:
Fiber vinyl. |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| Did anyone say drugs yet? |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dykes_on_Jay
Did anyone say drugs yet? |
I was gonna, but I've gotten a lot of flak for being a head around here, so I withheld. |
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