The tunnels are in many cases the only lifeline for food, goods and travel of movement but that is not in keeping with the IDF wanting to control and crush those people, so "hey let's label any hole in the ground a "terror tunnel" and then we can just carpet bomb any bit of land we want! Problem solved!".
and, again you miss the entire point as cripplingly illustrated by those nice graphs that the IDF have no problem targeting Hospital, Schools, Apartment blocks. All they have to do I say "well, there might have been someone from hamas living there".
Stop drinking the kool aid. It's just like Iboga. Only more people die.
Dykes_on_Jay
Handing out bacon Rann. They won't take it no matter how good it is.
Heil Shekel.
AlphaStarred
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
The tunnels are in many cases the only lifeline for food, goods and travel of movement but that is not in keeping with the IDF wanting to control and crush those people, so "hey let's label any hole in the ground a "terror tunnel" and then we can just carpet bomb any bit of land we want! Problem solved!".
Seriously? The tunnels run from Gaza straight into Israel. Why is that?
This is for you, from your very own "palestinians," who talk about the very function and purpose of these tunnels, which are used only as a weapon (watch the video, they admit it themselves!):
So is this:
Now I'd like to ask you to find me a single video where Hamas or any Muslim, for that matter, is using the tunnels to transport food and goods, rather than for ambushing and trying to kill civilians, kidnap soldiers, or launching rockets, which the palestinians and Hamas admitted themselves.
AlphaStarred
And speaking of transporting food and goods to Gaza, here is your very own IDF doing so, transporting food, medicine, and medical equipment:
"Following international condemnation of Sunday's airstrike on a UN school in Gaza, in which 10 people died, Israel's Defence Force insists it is helping Palestinians by sending them truckloads of food and essential goods
The IDF posted footage showing lorries being loaded up with aid to be sent into Gaza on Sunday."
Dykes_on_Jay
Goebbels would be proud, but not really.
Jon_Snow
Normally I question God's wisdom but putting two of the most hated people together was genius.
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Dude, you are bonkers. If Europeans protesting in full Peace keeping garb get a sniper hit to the forehead, then you can bet your last shekel they won't even blink mowing down the Palestinians holding a protest. Please refer to previous graphs for evidence of how the IDF do no give a about killing civilians.
I am bonkers? i am asking you why can't the people of Gaza protest for peace in the streets of Gaza,not it's boarders, JUST LIKE THEY PROTEST FOR KILLING JEWS? yet you insist to talk about Jew haters Europeans who "protest" in the faces of tired soldiers at the boarders of Gaza.
There aren't any IDF ground forces IN Gaza, why can't the Palestinians protest for actual peace?
"IDF doesn't give a about killing civilians"? how do you know? ever spent time with Israeli soldiers? i wonder, how can you explain that normal 18 year olds who got a western education can turn into complete psychopaths?
quote:
So suddenly this initiative, you used earlier to demonstrate that palestinians have no interest in their own state and therefore declined, has actually been denied at every turn by the alleged country rumored to have offered it (not that they could without having a vote which their new constitution demands), and then, even better you have no idea whether the Palestinian leader even knew about it.
OK, believe whatever you want.
Fact of the matter is: Muslim leaders of Gaza are never willing to make the first step onto peace which is simply acknowledging Israel.
quote:
I've only ever quoted you. I pull them all up if you want. "little soldiers for allah" is exactly how described what "palestinians want".
I said: "the Palestinians received an offer and refused it" , it's pretty obvious that when i say "Palestinians" in that sentence i mean PLO and Hamas. Gaza is not a democracy where all the citizens are called to vote on decisions.
I wonder why you try so hard to vilify a stranger on the Internet.
quote:
What? I hope you're high when writing this nonsense. At least it *may* have made sense to you while stabbing blindly at your keyboard. I don't even know what you;re getting at.
Oh my, talk about RAGE lol
You are trying to point out how i think 100% of Palestinians are terrorists, so i explained to you how they are actually being used as pawns by their leaders,terror groups and other powerful factors in the middle east.
That's when you understood you can't blame the Jew for being racist so you started to rage.
quote:
Go ahead then. Offer official stats for the numbers of missles "kept in hospitals, schools" etc.
I hear this bull all the time. I watched a BBC correspondent reporting live from a UN staffed hospital in Gaza nearly get killed when it was leveled (yes, entire critical care wing destroyed) by the IDAF. They immediately put out a statement saying it was a "hammas missile base". Unfortunately, the BBC has been there for several weeks on the ground and not seen, recorded a single missile or even a gun entering or leaving the property. Would have been kind of difficult to miss it as they were stationed both inside and the building next door.
I don't trust the BBC or other untrained reporters as a reliable observer in this case.
Are you talking about this hospital?
quote:
Oh, so hang on, so now those bulldozers exist? But really shouldn't bring up the Israeli settlements. That's an argument you can't win. AS I linked to earlier - every country deems them illegal apart from Israel.
Never said there aren't any bulldozers, you misunderstood (partly my fault).
Israeli settlements are something i'm against so i won't argue about it too much.
But Judea and Samaria situation is ed up, it doesn't really belong to anyone because it's divided in a retarded way in the first place.
quote:
Nope, I don't also read ISIS propaganda leaflets either.
Yep, same thing.
I wonder if you also compare the US army and the British army to barbaric terrorists or just the IDF?
This all comes back to the point of you thinking that every action that an Israeli does comes from a greedy\evil\imperialist intent , there certainly can't be any real militaristic\strategic motive behind any of it.
quote:
Stop conflating the point. Firstly, I have never once said Jewish. I've always said Israeli. Second, no not for pleasure but for political, financial, social and geographic gain. I don't think they do it with glee, but I certainly think they are honey badgers on this topic.
Political and social gain? do you think Netanyahu proudly stands in the Israeli parliament after each year and brags about the number of houses he demolished that year and then everyone claps and cheers?
What do you mean by Financial gain?
I guess you could have a point about geographic gain but you have to be more specific about where and how many houses in order for it to make sense.
quote:
Who says? How about stop targeting buildings that knowingly have an abundance of civilians in them. Hospitals, schools, care centers. SO what, one possible Hamas guy in there. You have to kill 500 children to get the terrorist? Well, done you just made 500 families hate the IDf more than you could ever comprehend.
Hamas fires missiles onto civilians, stores more missiles and mortars in places sensitive to airstrikes and the army needs to deal with it because that is their job.
Now, the army can send ground troops into traps and ambushes (just what Hamas wants in order to get a win) or the army can warn civilians and go with the aerial route.
Both options are from a moral standpoint but i'm sure you can get the logic behind the second option.
Do you think other Army forces like the American army or the Russian army could have done a better job in regards to minimizing civilian casualties? (seriously asking).
quote:
What? Do you hear yourself? I'm not even american and I find your comments repulsive. You should really be more appreciative of the US and it's army. You'd probably be as poor as the average palestinian if it wasn't for the USA.
How is it repulsive? will the American army negotiate with Al-Qaeda and release 1,000 terrorists who killed Americans for one American soldier? will you see a demonstration of hundreds of thousands in the streets of NY for the release of 1 american captive?
Do the president or vice president visit most killed combatant families?
4,500 American soldiers have died in Iraq Since "Mission Accomplished" and for what? to established a democracy IN A MUSLIM state?
Think about, Israel is not even willing to risk 2,000 soldiers for the elimination of Hamas - an actual objective.
quote:
No the rockets are inexcusable, but you have both the military hardware and precision to not have the collateral damage (I hate that phrase - let's call a spade a spade: Dead innocent people) that the IDF clearly doesn't give a about.
I don't pretend to have the military experience of professional military experts so i can't agree with you fully, but i guess more things can always be done to reduce collateral damage (ugly term indeed).
Israel is getting ed on an international level after every incident with major "collateral damage" so it is within it's best interest to keep it at a minimum.
quote:
Each Iron Dome single deployment launcher has 20 interceptors in them. So if there's only one launcher near then statistically, 1 might get through.
So, do you understand my point?
What if it's a 50 missiles at the same time or 100 and so on? a normal army can't play defense\Russian roulette until the people it's protecting gets killed.
quote:
But you do think it's OK. You think the Asymetical warfare as pointed out by L4C is somehow justifiable. It's not.
Asymmetrical warfare is wrong just like a regular war is wrong, it won't make me feel any better if Israelis didn't have shelters and Iron Domes so the "score" would be 5000:5100 or whatever.
In a perfect world the people of Gaza would have revolted against Hamas and asked to form a secular country based on PLUR.
quote:
Stop trying that bull defense. No one, and certainly not me in the thread has ever suggested more Jews should have died to match the insane number of Palestinian casualties.
The only answer is that you should be ashamed of how many innocents the IDF killed in your name.
No one has killed anyone in my name. I never asked to be born in Israel and i never joined Hamas and openly sacrificed Gazans for an empty cause.
Hell, i never even voted Likud or supported Jewish settlements.
There are two ways to make the numbers more Symmetrical:
1.Not responding to missile attacks - not an option for ANY country in the world.
2.Taking the surgical approach with ground troops (killing ~1000 soldiers).
If there was a 3rd option to DRASTICALLY minimize collateral damage then Israel would take it because Israel is the one taking a hit after every civilian casualty - not Hamas who is gaining more power as result.
And also, you want to talk about insane numbers? how about 100,000+ civilians getting killed in Iraq when not even 1 American civillian was killed by Iraq? point me to the thread where brutal criticism is being pointed towards the U.S,it's soldiers and it's allies for "murdering children" like some of you put it.
quote:
Security obviously, but as said before at least the people at the top of the IDF don't give two s about dead children.
Yes, they are not humans like you and your white friends.
quote:
Yes, becuase every drop of cement is to make "terror tunnels". Lol, listen to the propaganda in that term - just like when republicans call all venture capitalists "job creators".
Propaganda? Hamas builds long tunnels for terror yet where are the underground shelters for their children?
Legally, you can't even build a house in Israel if it doesn't contain a sheltered room but in Gaza the tunnels for terror comes before everything else.
quote:
You know a lot of those tunnels are just for simple trade, even getting food supplies in (as you know they can't buy anything from outside their region) and freedom of movement.
You do know that Hamas is forcing children to work underground digging those tunnels right? that at least 160 children DIED working there right? how about Hamas executing dozens of people who worked at those tunnels fearing they will leak intel to Israel?
C0r version: tunnels dug by a terror organization INTO targeted civilian areas is surprisingly used mainly for terror purposes. the rest is bull freedom fighters propaganda...
quote:
"allow them"? Listen to yourself. Allow them to travel. Straight out of the reich.
YES! Finally! let it all out like Jay!
Compare Jews to the Nazis, tell me how the Israelis (and the Egyptians btw) are limiting Gazans freedom to travel for sheer pleasure.
Anyway, i think We've exhausted this debate.
I can see where you coming from, why you think the way that you do and we're not going to change each other's opinions.
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by Jon_Snow
Normally I question God's wisdom but putting two of the most hated people together was genius.
Yes, but how is you and Jay sucking each other's dicks got anything to do with the topic at hand?
I do think it's nice that god has put you two together tho.
Redd
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
As someone who is getting a Master's in this stuff
Considering this, what is your take on that Sam Harris commentary posted earlier?
Lews
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
What do mean by "nice try"? The real slim shady was at your lastfm thingy on your sig.
I just wonder why would anyone come back to that stupid album from 15 years ago, i guess it was funny and amusing back then but i don't see myself tolerating Eminem's annoying voice on a decent sounding system.
It wasn't a personal attack lol, was just weird seeing Eminem on anyone's playlist.
It's a nice try, because it was a factually inaccurate statement about me. And it was, of course, a personal attack, considering it is an insult on my personal tastes.
Now, what you really should have done is insulted my listening of Ying Yang Twins, Mike Jones, Lil Jon, and other mid-2000s rappers of questionable skill.
quote:
Originally posted by Redd
Considering this, what is your take on that Sam Harris commentary posted earlier?
Didn't see it, care you bump it? I have a hard time getting through most published on these topics, let alone the inane rantings of the idiots around here.
Looney4Clooney
can we really clear up the whole eminem. I can't think of any of the legends still around that would say eminem can't rap. He is unique. He is talented. I don't care for any of his tracks except that one drugs from an early album. Lets not jew him out of what he has achieved.
Mr.Mystery
I'd just like to know what Eminem has to do with this discussion.
