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couple questions regarding the industry.
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| LoveHate |
1. i have decided that once i am done composing a song, and only mixing for a sound design purpose ( with delay, reverb, flangers ,etc) i am just going to hire a professional to mix and master it for me so its ready for all mediums and more importantly to send to labels, is this frowned upon? will they be expected to see their name on the track ?or receive some sort of credit ? Or is it once you pay for their services its kind of done, cus u don't see people critizing rock bands and pop singers for hiring people that actually know what their doing to polish their work I know in edm its different because you are expected to wear the "producer hat" and that accompanies all things in the studio .. i know a lot of people freelance on TA so maybe they might know. i just figure it , i'm never going to make it as a one man operation, i can only do so much on my own.
Furthermore..
2. is the artist responsible for the art work/cover ? or does the label handle that ? maybe its done at a case by case basis (some of the smaller ones might not) and some of the bigger ones might have a certain look that they go for and prefer to take control... |
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| cryophonik |
1. If you're hiring someone to do the mixing/mastering for a single release, there is usually no obligation to also credit them, since it's just payment for services. For a single digital release, there is usually not a good way to credit them anyway, aside from perhaps embedding the information into the metadata (they may do this for the final mp3 render anyway). Just make sure that this is understood and agreed upon up front. Also, be aware that some labels will want to handle the mastering themselves, and they may also make acceptance of the final track contingent upon some specific changes to the mix, so keep that in mind when it comes to hiring the mix/master engineers. The engineers typically offer a certain number of redos, so save at least one of those redos until AFTER you get a response from the labels.
2. In my own experience, the label has always handled the artwork. However, since my tracks always feature a vocalist, they typically ask for a good hi-res photo of the singer that they can use for the artwork. |
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| DJ RANN |
Great advice from Dave.
As a former Mix Eningeer I can tell you he's right. Any mix engineer worth his salt (or at least one with a slight business brain) should require the option for you/the eventual label to list the credit in the contract. That means while it's not embedded in the metadata or even publicly shown, they can add it to any sites (discogs etc) and the most important thing is that if that track ever gets used in a film or commercial broadcast you can get a credit on IMDB for it.
it's worthless from a monetary point of view for the mix engineer but it does build a portfolio and can build your career, because you can promote yourself.
I've seen deals done though where the mixer gets points - often top artists and writers want the best guys working on their tracks/songs and depending who the mixer is, you could get a small cut of sales. It's rare and only a few top guys get it.
I have seen it done on smaller production where the artist can't pay up front so they give a cut of the record (i.e. a small producer who going after a mixer that is slightly out of the financial league). usually it's 10-50% depending on the deal, but bear in mind a lot of mixers won't do that unless the track really has something (spending a few hours mixing a track that will get a 100 downloads will generate approximately 10% of all and is simply not worth it).
It's really better to just pay cash up front for the services but here's a tip: work with someone you can watch. you'll learn more by just sitting there having it mixed that you'll over pick up elsewhere, so you get tuition for the same price. Eventually you won't need to hire that person anymore and will understand a lot more. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
A bill just passed a few weeks ago concerning streams and royalties for producers and engineers in the USA.
So as of today , you are both wrong. Unless you have some sort of agreement in the contract, the default is that they are getting back end. Just like your mom.
I would sell this to engineers because the back end on beatport is a joke but perhaps they don't know how much of a joke it is yet. If they are mixing EDM, they probably don't quite know the business that well so take advantage while you can. |
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| LoveHate |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
A bill just passed a few weeks ago concerning streams and royalties for producers and engineers in the USA.
So as of today , you are both wrong. Unless you have some sort of agreement in the contract, the default is that they are getting back end. Just like your mom.
I would sell this to engineers because the back end on beatport is a joke but perhaps they don't know how much of a joke it is yet. If they are mixing EDM, they probably don't quite know the business that well so take advantage while you can. |
The guy I know actually , focuses on rock and rap
Here's his studio , that's my laptop in the middle there
He just also teaches guitar lessons ,and coincidentally mixing classes as well , I just happened to discover him through craiglist , and even though I'm happy with what I learned in the class I don't practice it as much to implement it , im more into the song writing side , which I think is okay , he discussed his mixing /mastering fee's because I was curious and he charges based off the gear he uses (out the board is more expensive ) also I'm in Canada so I'll have to look into that
Thanks for the info cyro & rann |
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| Looney4Clooney |
Is there a reason you are paying a hip hop guy?
The guy sounds like a complete knob. People charge by the hour. The gear entices people to go to that studio.
He charging you per wattage?
You want a trance guy in Vancouver? I can refer you .
You are making a big mistake getting someone that doesn't know the genre.
All those wave plugin artists couldn't mix a trance track to save their life. They aren't lacking skill, they just can't stand the music and when you don't like the music, you don't learn the music and you don't understand the aesthetic. |
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| soulstar606 |
labels labels :haha::crazy::tongue3:eyespop::wtf: |
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| kosmotika |
I would not hire someone for mastering simply because you know best what you want your song to sound like and someone mastering for you is going to master it according to what sounds best to them. I've also had some label-hired guys master my songs and it comes out sounding worse than before.
Being able to master a track properly is a skill and it's a valuable one worth learning. Teach yourself to master tracks well and you'll be well off, even if you do put out a few stinkers in the meantime like I did (you can really hear the learning curve on some of my old stuff)! If you don't want to take that risk or just can't get the hang of it however, most guys won't be expecting any serious credit. They get paid, they do the job. I would give them credit out of courtesy however.
As for cover art, the label does the work typically; a lot of electronic labels use templates nowdays as to make everything match a certain style in order to make the label instantly recognizable e.g. Anjunabeats has used this cover format for years; when you see this template, you know it's an Anjunabeats release.
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| LoveHate |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
Is there a reason you are paying a hip hop guy?
The guy sounds like a complete knob. People charge by the hour. The gear entices people to go to that studio.
He charging you per wattage?
You want a trance guy in Vancouver? I can refer you .
You are making a big mistake getting someone that doesn't know the genre.
All those wave plugin artists couldn't mix a trance track to save their life. They aren't lacking skill, they just can't stand the music and when you don't like the music, you don't learn the music and you don't understand the aesthetic. |
i was learning about mixing in general, and this guy could mix anything, including stuff he doesn't like personally , he just has a passion for the craft itself.i probably wouldn't know about the resonance filter or the fletcher munson curve otherwise.. none of the edm people i know in vancouver are really that good, or maybe i just haven't been able to network within the right circle ,
but if you know someone in vancouver, i am definitely interested in your referral.
maybe the outboard gear is an enticing factor , but i think he saves it for bigger clients. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by LoveHate
The guy I know actually , focuses on rock and rap
Here's his studio , that's my laptop in the middle there
He just also teaches guitar lessons ,and coincidentally mixing classes as well , I just happened to discover him through craiglist , and even though I'm happy with what I learned in the class I don't practice it as much to implement it , im more into the song writing side , which I think is okay , he discussed his mixing /mastering fee's because I was curious and he charges based off the gear he uses (out the board is more expensive ) also I'm in Canada so I'll have to look into that
Thanks for the info cyro & rann |
While it seems he may have a bit of talent in that he can both play, mix and produce, charging extra for using the outboard is the clear sign of a snake oil salesman. I'm with Richie on this one.
Is he going to charge you more for using the yellow knob, because it "adds the magic"?
Engineers charge by the hour or by the project - charging based on equipment is nothing more than a scam. Anyone who knows what they're dealing with would tell them to off for trying that and he's basically relying on people who don't know what they're talking about or looking at to charge more. Him teaching is a perfect net for those people.
As for mastering forget it - there's plenty of guys who master you track for you for under $100 and they'll do a better job than you can hope to do with 10 years of practise and $30k's worth of kit. |
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| kosmotika |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
As for mastering forget it - there's plenty of guys who master you track for you for under $100 and they'll do a better job than you can hope to do with 10 years of practise and $30k's worth of kit. |
Not to mention guys like me who may be willing to do it for free for whatever reason. His denying you usage of certain equipment to master your track with is just shady imo; it's like saying "Yeah, I'll master your track, but I'll do a sub par job unless you pay more money." Don't go with a guy like that. |
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| MSZ |
| Whats his address? I'd like to rob him. |
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