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using DAW to sequence hardware
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| AlphaStarred |
Ok, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this - never did it before. What would be the purpose and benefits of using a DAW to sequence my hardware?
Do I get to "draw" the track, so to speak, in the DAW? What would be the difference between sequencing with a DAW as opposed to from what I use as master to sequence now? |
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| tehlord |
It's a bit of a minefield due to midi timing/latency issues but it can be done.
What are you using now and why do you want to use the DAW?
The advantages are that the DAW sequencer is going to be massively more powerful than most hardware sequencers. Polyphonic sequencing would be easier for a start. |
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| cryophonik |
I use the DAW pretty much the same way I'd sequence a soft synth. I just create a MIDI track, assign it to the hardware synth, hit the record button, and record the MIDI parts. Afterward, I can edit/quantize the MIDI notes, punch in/out to redo sections, if necessary, etc. Conversely, I could just draw the MIDI notes into the piano roll or step sequencer, but that sorta defeats the advantage of using hardware synths IMO.
In my case, I use Sonar and I have instrument definitions already created for my hardware synths, which gives me immediate access to all of the hardware's parameters, so I can automate any of them by simply creating an automation lane and assigning it to the parameter of interest. I can either draw the automation curves into the DAW using its envelope tools, or I can write automation in real-time as I play the MIDI back and change values on the hardware synth (my preferred method) and, if necessary, tweak the automation in the DAW afterward.
Once I have the MIDI notes and automation complete in my DAW, I bounce the hardware to audio by recording the synth's audio in real-time (i.e., I record to a DAW track that receives the hardware synth's output as the MIDI plays it back).
That may seem like a complicated workflow, but it's actually quite simple and gives me a lot more flexibility than I ever had back when I used hardware sequencers for my hardware synths. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
I use the DAW pretty much the same way I'd sequence a soft synth. I just create a MIDI track, assign it to the hardware synth, hit the record button, and record the MIDI parts. Afterward, I can edit/quantize the MIDI notes, punch in/out to redo sections, if necessary, etc. Conversely, I could just draw the MIDI notes into the piano roll or step sequencer, but that sorta defeats the advantage of using hardware synths IMO.
In my case, I use Sonar and I have instrument definitions already created for my hardware synths, which gives me immediate access to all of the hardware's parameters, so I can automate any of them by simply creating an automation lane and assigning it to the parameter of interest. I can either draw the automation curves into the DAW using its envelope tools, or I can write automation in real-time as I play the MIDI back and change values on the hardware synth (my preferred method) and, if necessary, tweak the automation in the DAW afterward.
Once I have the MIDI notes and automation complete in my DAW, I bounce the hardware to audio by recording the synth's audio in real-time (i.e., I record to a DAW track that receives the hardware synth's output as the MIDI plays it back).
That may seem like a complicated workflow, but it's actually quite simple and gives me a lot more flexibility than I ever had back when I used hardware sequencers for my hardware synths. |
How do you compensate for the latency?
I use an RME FF400 at the moment and the midi timing/drivers on them are so good the latency is almost imperceptible at 64 samples so I tend to just run it live until I bounce to audio and then tweak the audio position on the timeline.
It doesn't solve the midi jitter, but I don't think I've ever come across jitter bad enough for me to care about. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
How do you compensate for the latency?
I use an RME FF400 at the moment and the midi timing/drivers on them are so good the latency is almost imperceptible at 64 samples so I tend to just run it live until I bounce to audio and then tweak the audio position on the timeline.
It doesn't solve the midi jitter, but I don't think I've ever come across jitter bad enough for me to care about. |
Same here. Latency is so minor that I don't notice it, but nudge it a few ticks to the left as needed after bouncing it.
I'll worry about jitter when AvB says that he won't play my tracks because of too much jitter. |
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| AlphaStarred |
Thanks for the info guys.
I use my Korg ER-1 as master now, and an Alesis MMT-8 MIDI sequencer to sequence my poly synth (it works fine, and I'm guessing I don't really need to use a DAW, then?)
I'm using 6 different machines in total (not including the Alesis sequencer). The only issue I've stumbled upon recently is trying to sequence an arpeggio from my synth. Not really sure how to record it into the Alesis because when I tried, it seems to start on a different note every beat. I'm sure there has to be some way to sequence/record it properly... |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
I'm using 6 different machines in total (not including the Alesis sequencer). The only issue I've stumbled upon recently is trying to sequence an arpeggio from my synth. Not really sure how to record it into the Alesis because when I tried, it seems to start on a different note every beat. I'm sure there has to be some way to sequence/record it properly... |
I haven't used an Alesis sequencer in 20+ years and have little experience with them, so I probably can't help too much. But, a few questions:
- Is the Alesis sequencer playing the arpeggio (i.e., the individual arpeggiated notes), or is it just triggering held notes and letting the synth's on-board arpeggiator cycle through the notes to create the arpeggio?
- Have you tried triggering the arp with just one synth attached to the sequencer, rather than all six? I assume that you've daisychained your six synths using MIDI In/Thru (since the MMT-8 has a single MIDI Out), so that might be tripping up the arp??? |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
- Is the Alesis sequencer playing the arpeggio (i.e., the individual arpeggiated notes), or is it just triggering held notes and letting the synth's on-board arpeggiator cycle through the notes to create the arpeggio?
- Have you tried triggering the arp with just one synth attached to the sequencer, rather than all six? I assume that you've daisychained your six synths using MIDI In/Thru (since the MMT-8 has a single MIDI Out), so that might be tripping up the arp??? |
I'm using the Alesis for only one synth, the rest are mostly drum machines, a x0xb0x and a sampler.
I think the answer is the former - I can record the arp, but when I have it looped, it seems to start on different notes every new beat or so. Not sure why...I'm probably doing something wrong, just need to wrap my head around this. I always record the synth part into the Alesis without anything else playing, so that's not a problem.
If I can do step-time recording on the Alesis, then I can just input the arpeggio myself, note by note, but it doesn't have step-time.
I think I may be able to use Quantize, although I think that also is used for beats, rather than individual steps - if I'm reading the manual correctly. |
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| tehlord |
I can't comment on the Alesis as I've never used one, but incorporating DAW sequencing into your setup will introduce latency. You can adjust the midi timing in the DAW to offset and as long as you don't change the buffer setting on your setup it should be (more or less) the same for each channel and only need setting once.
I don't see any reason why the Alesis shouldn't be able to play the arpeggiated sequence in time though, seems a bit odd. My guess is that it's a clock issue somewhere. |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
I can't comment on the Alesis as I've never used one, but incorporating DAW sequencing into your setup will introduce latency. You can adjust the midi timing in the DAW to offset and as long as you don't change the buffer setting on your setup it should be (more or less) the same for each channel and only need setting once. |
Thanks for the tip. I occasionally have latency issues with my setup as well, with all the daisy chaining. Usually it's fine, though.
| quote: | | I don't see any reason why the Alesis shouldn't be able to play the arpeggiated sequence in time though, seems a bit odd. My guess is that it's a clock issue somewhere. |
Yeah, could be. By clock issue, do you mean latency or timing? |
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| tehlord |
You could grab a midi splitter rather than daisy chaining everything. That should solve the latency you get from queuing the midi.
The clock issue could be from running everything with their own clock rather than having one master clock and everything else set to slave. I can see a situation where one device starts a new bar and the other doesn't get time to finish that part of the sequence. Just a guess though. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
The clock issue could be from running everything with their own clock rather than having one master clock and everything else set to slave. I can see a situation where one device starts a new bar and the other doesn't get time to finish that part of the sequence. Just a guess though. |
That sounds like a pretty good guess to me. |
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