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Truck plows into a throng of people in Nice Attack (pg. 4)
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| AlphaStarred |
| Interesting. What about these "Sharia Police" volunteers? I remember someone here posted something from the Swedish news about some no-go zones. Was that all a hoax, then? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Interesting. What about these "Sharia Police" volunteers? I remember someone here posted something from the Swedish news about some no-go zones. Was that all a hoax, then? |
An exaggeration, rather than a hoax.
I'm sure you can find petty criminals justifying their thuggishness on basis of religion/cultural background - which is not to say religious leaders themselves condone these acts. There have been reports of makeshift Muslim patrols in London, for example, but you can see that religious leaders (such as the East London mosque) were vehemently opposed for all the obvious reasons.
It's like saying there are no-go raving zones in London because ravers attack coppers there (and in Northampton). |
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| AlphaStarred |
To be fair, I'd rather be amongst cop-hating ravers than some radical sharia "police" unit. |
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| Lira |
As a civilian, definitely! If I were there as a law enforcement agent though, like this bloke from Imgur (you have to scroll down for the story), I'm not sure I'd pick "PLUR" over "Allahu Akbar" :p
Maybe, maybe not, it all depends on how many people we're talking about, really. And if negotiations might end with delicious falafel. |
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| Lews |
Anyone concerned about Muslims in London should actually try going to East London. I actually find the experience quite encouraging - many of the Muslim restaurants won't serve alcohol, but they will allow you to bring your own (!), so you end up getting a bunch of very drunk non-Muslims sitting at tables right next to completely-sober Muslims, all of whom are having a great time eating delicious Punjabi cuisine; it's a heart-warming multicultural experience - though perhaps some of the heart-warming is just due to the spices...
There certainly are Sharia 'councils', not courts, in London, but if that upsets you I would suggest you are not actually aware of what a Sharia council is. No one is forced to go to one, they are arbitration councils that individuals voluntarily submit to - just as how legal decisions in business disputes are often submitted for arbitration to independent councils - where the topic is mostly family issues, such as divorce.
There is no shadow-justice system, there are no shadow-police or Sharia police, or anything like that. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
There certainly are Sharia 'councils', not courts, in London, but if that upsets you I would suggest you are not actually aware of what a Sharia council is. No one is forced to go to one, they are arbitration councils that individuals voluntarily submit to - just as how legal decisions in business disputes are often submitted for arbitration to independent councils - where the topic is mostly family issues, such as divorce.
There is no shadow-justice system, there are no shadow-police or Sharia police, or anything like that. |
i agree with you, but let's not ignore the potential for social/cultural coercion. arbitration councils are completely different as the ruleset doesn't draw its authority from superstitious bollocks.
that's what s me about the whole "debate". idiot racists oppose islam "coz, brown people", and that stupidity is opposed by progressives because it's stupid. yet too few ever complain about the fact that while islam isn't terrorism, it's still ing bollocks. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Anyone concerned about Muslims in London should actually try going to East London. |
I love all these North Americans who seem to think there are parts of the UK that have been taken over by Muslims. It is complete and utter bull of the highest grade. |
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| Jon_Snow |
If you mean Alpha when you say all these North Americans, ok. It's funny he's the one taking issue because orthodox Jews exhibit similar if not more extreme behavior. I've been in orthodox neighborhoods and they're the most insular and unfriendly group I've met. I've been told they police themselves to maintain that environment.
This behavior is commonly exhibited by first generation immigrants and orthodox religions who are seeking to maintain and protect their traditions. I don't think anyone really cares as long as members of that community/religion don't engage in a terrorist killing campaign.
On the whole I think westerners reaction have been quite tempered. If the shoe was on the other foot I doubt the same tolerance and understanding would be afforded. Imagine the reaction if a Christian sect was inciting individuals in Islamic countries to launch random killing sprees on its citizens.
The reality is with each new attack governments are under increasing pressure to do something. Otherwise they will be voted out. Immigrants unfortunately are going to be the ones paying the price since the only countries that have been targeted are ones who have accepted Islamic immigrants. |
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| Serial Killer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
orthodox Jews exhibit similar if not more extreme behavior. I've been in orthodox neighborhoods and they're the most insular and unfriendly group I've met. |
how is it the same as driving a truck into a group of people ?
or slitting a throat of a priest ?
or blowing themselves up near a music festival ? |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
that's what s me about the whole "debate". idiot racists oppose islam "coz, brown people", and that stupidity is opposed by progressives because it's stupid. yet too few ever complain about the fact that while islam isn't terrorism, it's still ing bollocks. |
Stupid people getting taken advantage of by smarter people, man. It's a reality that transcends theism, agnosticism and atheism.
In this case, the results are horribly barbaric. The Islamic world could very well use a big dose of secularism, but the problem isn't the faith, it's the age old issue of smarter and more powerful people using idiots as pawns.
That will continue happening regardless of whether religion exists or not. You can see it online, as I'm sure you have. All the atheist bigwigs wanted people to be "rational" and to "think for themselves", but if you read anything about the issue of religion or Islam online it's the same bull spat out and licked up again. All the powerful religious dudes want is to make people listen to them, and all the secularist/atheist dudes want is to...you guessed it... make people listen to them.
All that's changed in the 2000s is that the idiots now have access to information they don't understand, but think they do. Therefore everyone seems to have a strong "informed' opinion on every damn issue.
It's what ISIS does to recruit these idiots as well. They show them videos, blogs, literature and God knows what else and their "followers" are so damn sure of themselves they go and do something that cannot be condemned strongly enough.
Pride and certainty in beliefs is a bitch. Which is noted in religious books, but whatever. :p
EDIT: As much as I hate to suggest this, because I'm really against violence like just about everyone, but the ringleaders of ISIS need to be rounded up and taken care of. Not by special forces or outside powers, but by mobs of Muslims who know right from wrong.
This is an information war as much as it is a violent one. If the idiots protecting ISIS and defending their heinous behavior see their own Muslim brothers and sisters beating the out of their bosses, it will dawn on them. I honestly don't know what else can be done at this point. If an outside power s with ISIS, it's just an investment into more propaganda. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I love all these North Americans who seem to think there are parts of the UK that have been taken over by Muslims. It is complete and utter bull of the highest grade. |
When I was home for 4th of July a couple of weeks ago, my grandfather asked my girlfriend and I if it was true that there were certain parts of London we were afraid to go to. I said yes, Brixton. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
When I was home for 4th of July a couple of weeks ago, my grandfather asked my girlfriend and I if it was true that there were certain parts of London we were afraid to go to. I said yes, Brixton. |
Ha. Wasn't that episode almost a year ago to the day? "Let's get the hell out of Brixton." |
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