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fabric closed down permanently (pg. 3)
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| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Woony
Maybe i'm underestimating how much of a anti-drug hard on UK police have, when it comes to clubs it's mostly for show here to make it seem like they are doing something (same as the clubs).
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I think the UK shares much of the same fate as Scandinavia (Denmark to a lesser extent) when it comes to the drug war as a major political selling point. The cannabis stance has been stagnant for decades in Norway, despite the available research, and in the UK, there was the
David Nutt debacle, which still irks me. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Woony
Maybe Fabric had bouncers but for any bouncer worth is salt memorizing a hundred faces is nothing. The bouncers at Berghain for example have the faces of hundreds (if not over a thousand) of regulars memorized and they almost never slip up. They will often even still recognize strong regulars if they don't go for a couple of years. |
Remembering hundreds of familiar faces is a completely different proposition to memorising 100 photos of faces and matching them randomly to the real person in the middle of the night. I worked at a casino for a while and I could easily do the former. The latter is an elaborate memory and facial recognition test.
| quote: | | Of course they were only looking to do "just enough", that's what every club does but then why would you have a situation where you obviously have a horde of dealers running around openly approaching people? |
That's a pretty common experience at any "world famous" club or festival I've ever been to, and not just in the UK. It might seem abnormal to you given the drug climate in Berlin, but it's not really outlandish. You also have to bear in mind that not everyone selling drugs is a regular, full-time dealer. A lot of people flogging pills in a club are just normal(ish) clubbers who are short of cash and are re-selling stuff they buy with a minor mark-up. I know people who've done that.
Wherever there are lots of tourists and out-of-towners, there is a market to make money from selling drugs. And as the police noted, that's a big attraction for tourists. If you've come to London from another country and you want to check out Fabric, you're not going to have any contacts in the city. People want to be able to pick up inside the club. And that helps the atmosphere. |
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| Woony |
Well, I mean they have photos of these people for a reason - if they are/were regular dealers they will have been frequently at the club in person.
I was talking about the rampant dealer thing in the context of Fabric, which is that police are obviously trying to nail it for facilitating drug use, it just seems like a weird decision in that climate (which leads me to believe that maybe someone else made that decision). It's not like you can't pick up stuff in a club here, you just have to ask around for a bit.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
I think the UK shares much of the same fate as Scandinavia (Denmark to a lesser extent) when it comes to the drug war as a major political selling point. The cannabis stance has been stagnant for decades in Norway, despite the available research, and in the UK, there was the
David Nutt debacle, which still irks me. |
I mean, for the record we aren't exactly Portugal but compared to Sweden the policies are quite lax. I guess the main difference to the UK is that the police aren't as zealous about enforcing things when it comes to clubs and recreational users, at least in Berlin - it's obviously different in rural areas. |
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| DJ RANN |
Some great points in this thread, but honestly, it comes down to money; that actually what happened with Home in Leicester Square and while Fabric certainly has had more than it's fill of drug issues, the fact the land is worth 10 time more as a development that a club is all you need to know.
Look at Turnmills; they never really had bad drug issues there but the Newman's (yes, Tall Paul's family owned it) were seeing all the costs go up and the offers to turn it in to luxury offices were just staggering and at some point, you give in.
Fabric always had management issues though. The first group of directors (really the founding guys) left in about 2005 and all had subtsance issues by the time they got out.
The next wave kept the club going while the rest of club land contracted but honestly, you can't also keep venues going forever. The sheer number of underground events in London or alternative venues like the Tabacco Docks just don't have the overheads.
Every club has drug issues and even death issues (ministry included) and really they're used as a reason to close it when other factors come in to play.
(semi) Sadly, i have a feeling MoS may go the same way soon..... |
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| evo8 |
| Deaths change everything, puts massive pressure on clubs if a death occurs, its a massive stick to beat the club with even if its not the clubs actual fault. |
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| rubez |
i enjoyed goldie talking sense on c4 news, i like him, i doubt anyone here would have seen it though.
the online clip removed his comments about the deaths, so it's pointless. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
Deaths change everything, puts massive pressure on clubs if a death occurs, its a massive stick to beat the club with even if its not the clubs actual fault. |
Yeah, they do put pressure on clubs that can be used by outside forces with ulterior motives but deaths themselves aren't usually enough to close a club if the club itself isn't negligent (and even then a quick ownership or management shakeup can keep closure away).
For instance, Pacha in London had two deaths in one year (one from someone falling off a balcony and one drug related) but it didn't get closed down.
As jack pointed out, Fabric seems to have had 6 and lasted years through those deaths. MoS has certainly had a couple.
I think really unless the club is truly at fault, then it's a case of the deaths being used by the council or developers as a stick to beat them in to position.
here in the USA, it's a different thing, death in a club (or even outside) means loss of Alcohol license. They can sometimes put the license in someone else's name after a restructuring but 95% of the time, it means that club is over. |
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| OrangestO |
Would have loved to finally check it out whilst in London next month.
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| paulversuspaul |
| quote: | Originally posted by Woony
Well, drug laws are obviously being selectively enforced, or they'd have to close all the clubs and festivals. They are almost always strictly enforced when it's convient, so I have a hard time believing there's at least not something else going on there. Maybe not straight up bribery but at least an interested in getting rid of the club in favor of development plans.
And you know, here in Berlin the enforcement of drug laws is incredibly lax compared to the UK. If the local council / police want to get rid of a club they will find something else like noise complaints, licensing technicalities or faults in the building safety regulations etc. |
Berlin also gets better and purer drugs. The mdma and ketamine in Germany is top quality. Most of the overdoses are caused by bad batches of the drugs. Why I think Berlin is just more tolerant of drug use in clubs since it doesn't lead to overdoses that get on the national news. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulversuspaul
Berlin also gets better and purer drugs. The mdma and ketamine in Germany is top quality. Most of the overdoses are caused by bad batches of the drugs. Why I think Berlin is just more tolerant of drug use in clubs since it doesn't lead to overdoses that get on the national news. |
Sorry, but I think you're misinformed here. It's well established that there are extremely strong pills coming out of the Netherlands right now - some tested with up to 400mg of MDMA per pill. MDMA-related deaths in the UK have spiked in recent years and it's because of the exceptional strength of the pills in circulation. It doesn't take much for an ignorant teenager to double-drop or to think their pill isn't working and suddenly they have almost a gram of pure MDMA in their system at once. The results are grimly predictable.
This is not to say pure drugs aren't available in Berlin, but they're available all over Europe right now. |
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| paulversuspaul |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Sorry, but I think you're misinformed here. It's well established that there are extremely strong pills coming out of the Netherlands right now - some tested with up to 400mg of MDMA per pill. MDMA-related deaths in the UK have spiked in recent years and it's because of the exceptional strength of the pills in circulation. It doesn't take much for an ignorant teenager to double-drop or to think their pill isn't working and suddenly they have almost a gram of pure MDMA in their system at once. The results are grimly predictable.
This is not to say pure drugs aren't available in Berlin, but they're available all over Europe right now. |
Jesus fn Christ! 400mg? Why would anyone make something like that? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulversuspaul
Jesus fn Christ! 400mg? Why would anyone make something like that? |
I honestly don't know. It's certainly the upper limit of what's out there, but it goes to show how far the boundaries have shifted. Most of these Dutch pills are said to come with a breakline down the middle (like medication) and users are supposed to only do halves at a time.
Proof, if proof be need-be: https://pulseradio.net/articles/201...a-warning-ibiza |
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