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Religion in our Culture (pg. 3)
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| Renegade |
| quote: | I think the heart of an irrational argument is an irrational religion. Because of this I propose the best way to make an irrational argument is to come up with a wholly ridiculous and nonsensical religion that you can defend on the same terms as religious people use to defend theirs.
A project of this scale would be far, far beyond the realm of a simple forum, but it certainly seems like it'd be a fun thing to do given some spare time |
>> The Invisible Pink Unicorn <<
Founded by an atheist in 1994, and there's virtual shrines all over the net now. This site has recorded the "prophecies and revelations" made by various people over the years on the alt.atheist usenet forum, and it's actually starting to like a religious text.
I guess it's the only religion a self-respecting atheist could ever bow down to. ;)
| quote: | Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot move it?
If he can then there is now a rock he can't move...boom...he isn't all powerfull.
If he cannot then, well, he isn't all powerfull either. |
There's also the omnipotent/omnibenevolent argument which is pretty similar.
If God is omnipotent, he can do evil deeds, in which case he cannot be omnibenevolent. If God is omnibenevolent, he cannot perform evil deeds, and is thus not omnipotent. |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by SpykeChyld
Yes, I have one that I love.
Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot move it?
If he can then there is now a rock he can't move...boom...he isn't all powerfull.
If he cannot then, well, he isn't all powerfull either.
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That's actually a very rational argument. You're demonstrating the self-contradictory nature of a being that is "all-powerful" and thereby asserting that such a being could not exist, because it would form a contradiction.
btw... love the post Izzy :) |
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| CortexBomb |
| quote: | Originally posted by SpykeChyld
Yes, I have one that I love.
Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot move it?
If he can then there is now a rock he can't move...boom...he isn't all powerfull.
If he cannot then, well, he isn't all powerfull either.
:D
Too bad we don't have a christian in the forum to see his reaction |
I'm not exactly a Christian :D but I can give you a Christian reaction to it, since this is a classic, classic question.
The answer, as given by Aquinas (?) in short, was that such a thing isn't possible, but that we shouldn't see that a limitation on God's power.
God can't make a rock that he can't lift, any more than he could create a triangle which had inside angles of over 180 degrees.
Similarly, God can't create a universe that wasn't created by God.
Such a thing is simply not possible, so to consider it a limitation is faulty logic.
:shrug: |
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| SpykeChyld |
| quote: | | such things are not possible. To consider it a limitation is faulty logic |
To consider that question is to consider an oxymoron. If it is not possible, it is a limitation. No 2 ways about it, no questions. If it is not possible then it is a limitation. |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by SpykeChyld
To consider that question is to consider an oxymoron. If it is not possible, it is a limitation. No 2 ways about it, no questions. If it is not possible then it is a limitation. |
If God exists, He must transcend logic. He must be able to do the impossible. Such is the nature of a being defined such as He. |
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| SNAFU_man |
but why would god create such a rock?
to give himself a cranial hernia?
i'm probably missing something here. |
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| SpykeChyld |
^^^^^^
Assuming that God exists would have to basically prove everything thing that is, uhh... well, isn't.
Would this include God or would this just negate everything in the known universe EXCEPT God?
When faced with this logic you must ask yourself...If all was negated except God, but we are still here, would we all be part of God?
Then you move on to, Well, if I'm athiest and we are all part of God, then do I exist in the first place?
:eyespop: :eyespop: :eyespop: :eyespop: :eyespop:
Or maybe I just think too much :D |
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| PeacefulWarrior |
| The genuinely religous are without religion. |
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| InAcoma |
First off, I am atheist (Whatever that means to you) I have no deity or god to preach about/practice too.
I respect other peoples choice in
religion, as long as they respect mine.I see neither race, colour nor creed as a social issue/boundry.
However, it is a fact that religion has caused more death/hurt/pain/controversy than anything else on the face of this planet.So the question begs, what do we do? Where do we go?
Faith is something most people have, what you have faith in, is your choice.
I choose music as my faith, I also think it should be a religion.
We are born into this world and one of the first things we experience is music, the sound of our first song is usually our first cry, the sound of
our mothers/fathers voices cooing and awwing is the first aria we
experience, the background harmonics of the people taking care of us is the first symphony. People singing to us to comfort, reciting lullabies to keep us calm and serene.
From there we are always surrounded by it, wrapped in its melodies and vocal caress, it is used to placate us into sleep, used to assist us rest our weary heads.
It is always something we find pleasant, and never does us any harm, we never fear it or shy away from it.
Music follows us throughout every part of our lives, it never leaves our side. Think about it for a moment, every major event in our lives has music involved somewhere, in one way shape or form. From birth, to birthdays, to graduations, weddings, funerals and most defining moments.
We celebrate to it, we commiserate with it, we wrap ourselves up in momentsof time, by remembering pieces of it, many memories are triggered from hearing it, we associate so much, and identify with it.
It defines where we belong, or who we belong to as we get older and develop our own personal taste in it.
Yes it can trigger memories of pain and emotion, but it can also bring us to euphoric joy.It envelops us it its arms, and never lets us go.
From birth to death it is a constant, when not much else can lay that claim.
Religion and gods are often not there when you cry Salva Mea,but it would not take long for you to track down a piece of music called the same.
Strange that most religions use music, yet it still is not allowed to
bridge the many differences between them.
I have seen a sea of thousands of people before me, celebrating in union 2the sound of there favourite dj's, dancing and screaming,
chanting out the words. No fighting, no bloodshed, all coming together
for the common cause.
To share in the music of there choice.
No holy symbol needed, just a soundwave bringing them together.
How many people get together at a weekend and go clubbing, getting
together surrounded by music, and happier for it. How many of these people have mental enhancing experiences getting lost in that music, loosing themselves completly too it, but benefitting from it in so many ways.
Maybe not the answer for everyone, but I know which one keeps me sane.
Young or old, does not matter, black, white, pink or green makes no
difference. Even deaf people can still feel music. It breaks down so many barriers and brings so many people together.
That is why I have music as my faith.
Works for me :D |
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| nrjizer |
One of the most puzzling thing I find about religious people, mostly christians in general, is that they say it takes faith and an open heart and mind to be a christian, yet their hearts and minds are completely closed to all other possabilities. Ive NEVER met a christian who would openly admit that there is a remote chance he may be wrong. They are convinced as if their religion is proven fact.
Anyways, religion in general is skewed. Can you really trust that over thousands of years and literally millions of translations, the bible and other holy books havent been warped around maliciously? You hear about televangelist scams and like that all the time. I cant recall much, but around the time Constantine took over rome, he modified a lot of the Christian religion to better control the masses. Hell, among other things, was added, and things like Jesus' talkings of reincarnation were taken out. This isnt bull, this is real history that took place. I cant remember much else.
Just some thoughts... |
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| Verona^My |
| quote: | Originally posted by SpykeChyld
OK. In the past 2 days I've had so many people come to me and tell me that I should pray for this and that God will do that and blah.
Well, I am athiest.
I'm a very nice athiest, but I'm athiest.
This seems to make people very angry, lol.
I guess all I'm asking in this thread is whether you all think that Religion should be pushed onto people.
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Organzed Religion is evil, and lots of Scripture is mundane or nonsensical due to teh ye olde English... I mean, if you need the ten commandments to tell you that murder or stealing is wrong you're screwed up in the head.
However the idea of a god or gods, or goddess, etc, does not bother me. I dont believe in hell however, I find the idea of hell evil in itself.
It's sad in a way... Religion came up with some noble ideas to live up to, yet so many were killed in the name of religion, and that fact alone makes it difficult for me to endorse religion. |
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| Verona^My |
| quote: | Originally posted by nrjizer
Ive NEVER met a christian who would openly admit that there is a remote chance he may be wrong. They are convinced as if their religion is proven fact.
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isn't this the case with most religions though? I'm sure it's not unique to the Christian religion. |
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