Originally posted by Kuhis
I think this version of the same video sums things out pretty well:
:stongue:
Mad to think all the time he was playing mind blowing sets in 1999 he was thinking to himself this is really cheesy music
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by the-sixth
What I find so funny about this is that anyone from early 90s wouldnt consider 1999 "trance" to be really trance at all. It's just going round in circles with labels.
Paul Van Dyk himself infact called 1999 trance "really cheesy music". That is on video
I see ur pvd and i raise u 1 armen
Trance-M
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
I see ur pvd and i raise u 1 armen
I was waiting for that one.
Swamper
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Sure Trance might be growing but there's not a single regular trance night here in LA right now and SF's last just closed. Things are cyclical, things come and go, but when I moved here in 2007 I had at least 3 or 4 trance/prog nights at big clubs to choose from (Avalon, Vanuagurd, Ivar, etc) and now there's none. It might be growing elsewhere, maybe Europe, but it's no so much here in the USA and believe me, I've looked.
speaking directly to the people that are involved and have been invested. I mean , we're on a VB forum that hasn't changed in 15 years (in spite of everything social media has thrown at the internet) so it's not too much of a stretch to say we're the hardcore enthusiasts.
Some of the worst things I see with this scene is that high profile DJ's only ever engage when their names are sullied, rather than contributing positively in other time to the conversation.
Trance has been in murky waters for YEARS because let's face it, Trance has never been "sexy" and as the nightclub bottle service culture heightened we are faced with few venues where it is actually a welcome sound.
Plenty of people enjoy listening to Trance, though for some reason it has always been hard to pull those same people into events. The feel-good Trance wave that existed in late 90's/early 2000's was also riding the crescendo of the optimism/good feeling that came with the new millennium / internet .com boom (and subsequent bust). Now, in 2018, the near limitless ways to get access at the music you love means you don't have to seek it out in a club - not everyone is into clubs -- and, as evidenced by dating app popularity, you don't need to go out and club to meet people anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by John 00 Fleming
Armin isn’t responsible for fixing the scene, we all are. But it can’t be done by armchair forum police puling people down. I’ve been so close to leaving Trance many times because of this, it's a horrible eviroment especially here and why no DJs come here anymore and its slowly becoming a ghost town.
Trance is currently very healthy and growing in size, theres a massive underground scene thriving you just need to find it, I’ve been investing a lot of time meetings with Beatport, DJ mag, festival promoters, producers and they all identify this too and are looking to support it.
If you spent time researching, instead of being lost in your own bubble here, you’ll all find it and contribute and enjoying. But your negativity’s has created this lonely ghost town, a quick read through topics only highlights none of you see what we are seeing, hence why you are disconnected with reality…just like DJ Rann was with my history.
I see it first hand, the amount of small underground clubs and new promoters is incredible, I don't recall seeing such a movement for a long time. We all had to ride through the EDM storm, it lasted much longer than we expected.
Musically, there is also the challenge for Trance talent to stand out as having a unique sound while not falling into the EDM trap and still calling themselves Trance artists. If you look at Techno you'll see they didn't have the same sort of identity crisis ...but that's a different topic.
I've always been a fan of Armin's though I'll admit over the last few years I have cringed when he would ask people at big festivals if they were in a State of Trance and then proceeded to unleash EDM noise. I would think to myself, ", if Armin doesn't feel it safe to play Trance when playing a big festival stage then who else is going to take that risk?!" Also, what happens when Armin retires, who is left to fill those big shoes? ASOT in 2018 may not be the early ASOT most of us fell in love with but he is still doing a lot for Trance on a global level.
"I owe a lot to Canada, I owe a lot to the Canadian crowd because it was one of the first countries to really embrace Trance music. Actually, one of the most important web sites back in the days was TranceAddict which is based out of Toronto and one of the really influential clubs for a really long time was the Guvernment based out of Toronto. So, this was always kind of the "capital" of Trance a little bit for a very long time... and still is there is still a lot of love for Trance music."
-Armin 2014
The forum was basically on fire for almost a decade - annually having 1+ million posts and no shortage of people who would rush on here after an event to share their views/party experiences. As FB rose the forum declined, but I'm to blame as well, as this place is (still) not mobile friendly. I could've slowed the exodus a bit, definitely, but as smartphone/social media adoption has shown, people are barely sharing complete sentences (let alone paragraphs) of what their night out entailed. A like/share or some hearts are basically all you get now. A retweet/like on Instagram/snap story or share of a Youtube vid. I look to Reddit as an outlier because as simple as it is, it somehow became the place for all the old school forum lovers to post, on whatever topic, after their own favourite message boards died out.
Regarding what John has said about the negative nature of TA - it seems more that way now because you don't have the wide-eyed newbies coming in as often proclaiming their love of the genre. It has always been like this though, I could pull up threads from 2002 where the regulars were mean to newcomers. That is the kind of thing that happens on any forum as it grows, even if I hate it because it goes against the positive nature of the Trance 'scene' and parties/events.
When I started this place (18+ years ago) I never expected it to get so popular and it freaked me out a bit when it did. When I started it was easy - I could basically do what I wanted and I didn't have a bunch of people suggesting what I 'should' do or change. I also wasn't ready for the minefield that was managing to afford the bandwidth/web hosting, dealing with the massive MP3 legalities, and also balancing how to moderate a forum and what 'rules' to enforce or not enforce. Hindsight is 20/20 and I would've changed some things but I think I did ok
Incoming virtual dick wag - I would say that my proudest thing about TA is that I never censored people or their opinions or sold out to any artist or label. You RARELY ever see the kind of honesty that is laid out bare here in posts on Facebook or other social media platforms. You've always been free to post your thoughts here ...and for many years I've had to also hear slack from DJs that hated some of the massively derailed threads on here. At the same time, it has also been sad when some people took things way too far and you can read the hate oozing from their posts trying to tear down an artist. That isn't motivating for anyone! Moreover, DJs/producers are usually used to positive reviews/interactions at events from their fans and then all it takes is 1 negative post on TA (or any social media) to bring your mood down. I get it. However, to keep things real you NEED to allow a platform for those people to share their opinions, and if they're stupid/inaccurate then it also leaves a platform for those same things to be corrected/addressed (by the artist or other fans) instead of swept under the rug. I don't know what the solution is but it's obvious nobody has a simple answer... fb/twitter/instagram and social media trolling/bullying is not going to disappear and it is not easy to control either. So many places removed their forums (or comment sections) in the past five years - IMDB, big news sites, etc. It is hard to police.
So, where do we go from here? I'm open to ideas.
I guess I could make the forums mobile friendly to start... :wtf:
It may not fix anything but at least it'll make it easier to battle the trolls. :stongue:
the-sixth
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
I see ur pvd and i raise u 1 armen
Oh wow I fold. Well played never saw that before :haha:
Lews
Before there is any movement forward, I think that, metaphysically, everyone needs to figure out what they mean by 'Trance' and, more importantly, why they care so much about that word.
Syntonic
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
Before there is any movement forward, I think that, metaphysically, everyone needs to figure out what they mean by 'Trance' and, more importantly, why they care so much about that word.
Don't open pandora's box!
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
Before there is any movement forward, I think that, metaphysically, everyone needs to figure out what they mean by 'Trance' and, more importantly, why they care so much about that word.
Have to agree with this. It's the crux of the entire discussion.
I'd hate to see TA 2.0 up the desktop platforms (I ing hate typing long things on my phone) but a mobile friendly version would at least be good.
I'll also say that i don't think TA is quite as dead as people keep saying.
I posted in this thread yesterday, and 24 hours later, i find it buried towards the bottom of the MD. That's not really dead by any stretch and given the comparative health of forums in general, that's positively bustling.
I suppose my 2c for Swampah is make a mobile version but don't up the desktop version. We still need the longer, more thoughtful, more articulated conversations that the full screen version provides, but it might be nice to at least be able to post from mobile.
What i wouldn't like is if this skewed entirely to mobile, because what you get then is the equivalent of "likes" or retweets; one sentence wonders that plague platform reddit like, well, the plague. Places where people just chime in one fleeting though and hope it gain enough karma to be on top. Please don't let this place devolve to that ADHD self appreciative mess for the semi coherent.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by John 00 Fleming
Thats the danger of forum, a quick read, moment of passion and hit reply. A moment of weakness, but as you pointed out it happened to you too. No malice intended, and as you're so close to Avalon you got no excuse to come along when I'm there next month!
Also answer you your question, I'm one lucky DJ, at the age of 15 landed a residency at Sterns in Sussex UK, 3000 capacity. BUT I also love playing small tiny venues too, actively make this happen.
I'll wholehearted agree; it's dangerous to skim and appropriate an answer without full consideration.
My Avalon days are a bit behind me tbh but I was never really a fan of that place (although it does resemble the Camden Palace a bit in layout!). Avalon always had a problem with what we call out here washers and puddles. I ended up having better times in the downstairs to some McProg and tech House. I still may pop out if I can convince the missus too. I'd much prefer to see you in a smaller venue, so let me know if you end up at any infamous LA afterhours ;)
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Have to agree with this. It's the crux of the entire discussion.
I'd hate to see TA 2.0 up the desktop platforms (I ing hate typing long things on my phone) but a mobile friendly version would at least be good.
I'll also say that i don't think TA is quite as dead as people keep saying.
I posted in this thread yesterday, and 24 hours later, i find it buried towards the bottom of the MD. That's not really dead by any stretch and given the comparative health of forums in general, that's positively bustling.
I suppose my 2c for Swampah is make a mobile version but don't up the desktop version. We still need the longer, more thoughtful, more articulated conversations that the full screen version provides, but it might be nice to at least be able to post from mobile.
What i wouldn't like is if this skewed entirely to mobile, because what you get then is the equivalent of "likes" or retweets; one sentence wonders that plague platform reddit like, well, the plague. Places where people just chime in one fleeting though and hope it gain enough karma to be on top. Please don't let this place devolve to that ADHD self appreciative mess for the semi coherent.
I have fun using forums under https://xenforo.com/
It's very convenient as it works fine on my mobile phone, at the top of your screen you see updates on threads you've posted on or checked out as well as likes to your posts and PMs sent.
Want to upload a picture? just drag it in from your desktop or even copy paste it from a clipboard.
This kind of forum software makes the forum A LOT more appealing and social and thus more active.
Head-fi.org moved to it as well and they managed to transfer their entire old forum content into the new system.
I guess it's a lot to ask from Swamper though, just wishful thinking.
Swamper
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
I have fun using forums under https://xenforo.com/
It's very convenient as it works fine on my mobile phone, at the top of your screen you see updates on threads you've posted on or checked out as well as likes to your posts and PMs sent.
Want to upload a picture? just drag it in from your desktop or even copy paste it from a clipboard.
This kind of forum software makes the forum A LOT more appealing and social and thus more active.
Head-fi.org moved to it as well and they managed to transfer their entire old forum content into the new system.
I guess it's a lot to ask from Swamper though, just wishful thinking.
I decided a long time ago that any upgrade would be XF and not vbulletin... they unfortunately royally ed up VB many years ago when the original developers left (around 2009/2010) and XF took some time to surface as a viable alternative. I would also not mess up the desktop version... since it is mainly us oldschoolers who are left that would be a dumb idea.
The largest (successful) forum that is (still) running this same (ancient) version of vBulletin as TA is SomethingAwful. It is heavily modified though but the back end is the same. They have 60+ million posts and 5000+ logged in users... what is funny is that they somehow managed to pull off a $10 membership fee as the means to control trolls. That wouldn't work here but I was surprised by it. Their general guidelines are smart though.
Looking at headfi - I don't like how they did their template with the user info/header is set up to show ABOVE each post in a thread... rather than the side. It just means you have to scroll a lot more.
_Ocean_Drive_
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
I see ur pvd and i raise u 1 armen
