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Reverb
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| Connector |
Hello almost dead forum. I need to talk about reverb. Anybody here?
I have come to the conclusion that stock reverb sucks. Just as 3rd party reverb. They all suck. Some of them suck less and some of them suck more.
But all in all the suckylevel of all reverb-vst is medium to high.
I am that arrogant that I actually believe that it cant be my reverb programming that is bad but instead the plugins i use.
None of them give me the very pro result that I desire.
So I was thinking that I have to spend some precious euro on some hardware reverb.
And if its good enough I can finally start to blame myself for my poor results instead of my gear.
Anybody here got some experience with hardware reverb and can recommend something? What do the pro guys use?
And when I say pro guys I mean pro guys on a budget. Will 500 euro get me somehting shiny? More? |
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| Teezdalien |
Hey! This joint is pretty dead these days and while I don't think I really agree with your sentiments here, I'll give my two bob's worth for the sake of activity.
I say knock yourself out if you think a hardware reverb is your ticket to good sounding reverb, but I'll also say that I'd wager if you can't get a good VST reverb to sound good then it's likely down to how you're using it.
Reverb is definitely one of those things where less is more in my experience and is easy to over do it which leads to a lot of potential problems with your mix... So find the point where you think you have the optimal level of reverb and then slightly reign it back in a bit more.
I tend to like questions more so than answers, so I also have some as a kind of response.
Which reverbs are you referring to specifically?
What kind of reverbs do you like and are shooting at?
What is it specifically turning you off with plug-in verbs?
Personally I tend to use a bunch of different reverbs, and have some goto presets I turn to again and again. For plug-ins I often use a Lexicon LXP medium chamber preset for adding space/dimension to elements/mix. Eventide Blackhole or my Strymon Big Sky's Bloom algorithm for getting huge ambiences and floating like qualities.. Other times I actually use onboard reverbs with some synths, my favourite at the moment being Tranzistow which has an amazing on-board reverb...
As for hardware if you've got the coin the OTO Bam is awesome.
But yeah I really don't think it matters much whether using hardware or software unless you want an authentic spring or plate sound. |
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| tehlord |
If you can't get good reverb from a plugin, you will not get it from a �500 hardware reverb either.
There are a lot of spectacularly good reverb plugins out there. |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| quote: | Originally posted by Connector
I have come to the conclusion that stock reverb sucks. Just as 3rd party reverb. They all suck. Some of them suck less and some of them suck more.
But all in all the suckylevel of all reverb-vst is medium to high.
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Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? |
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| Connector |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? |
I guess it comes down to how you define good.
A person I know(ish) used to play ice hockey (long time ago) and got drafted to one of the teams in the highest league in Sweden.
Some people called him a good hockey player. And maybe they were right because you cant completely suck if you play at that level.
But if you compare that player to the players in the NHL then it is another story. Suddenly he is not that good. He is at top mediocre.
A good NHL player would probably out play him so hard that he would look bad.
Anybody like soccer? Me neither. But one day youtube recommended a "best of Lionel Messi" video to me. The guy makes players in his own league look like they dont belong there.
And as long as you are comparing other players to him they suck.
And I think of these effects-vst in the same way. Sure they might be good as long as you dont compare them to the gear that have exceptional high sound quality.
That gear makes almost everything else sound lifeless and boring. |
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| Connector |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
If you can't get good reverb from a plugin, you will not get it from a �1�7500 hardware reverb either.
There are a lot of spectacularly good reverb plugins out there. |
I must have missed out on the reverb plugins. What do you recommend to a delusional hobby music producer who thinks that he needs hardware to satisfy his reverb needs? |
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| Connector |
| quote: | Originally posted by Teezdalien
Which reverbs are you referring to specifically?
What kind of reverbs do you like and are shooting at?
What is it specifically turning you off with plug-in verbs?
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All of them! :p
I saw a Vermona DSR-3 hardware reverb on youtube and that got me hard in the pants. But then i googled it and saw the price. Yikes.
But hey I will gladly take recommendations if some vst can do the job! I will look at that lexicon reverb for sure. Might even save me some money
edit: Now I am listening to the Bricasti Design M7.... Have to rob a bank soon. |
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| Teezdalien |
| quote: | Originally posted by Connector
All of them! :p
I saw a Vermona DSR-3 hardware reverb on youtube and that got me hard in the pants. But then i googled it and saw the price. Yikes.
But hey I will gladly take recommendations if some vst can do the job! I will look at that lexicon reverb for sure. Might even save me some money
edit: Now I am listening to the Bricasti Design M7.... Have to rob a bank soon. |
Yeah you're not really gonna get super close in software to that Vermona being a pretty high end spring unit. It's just the behaviour of the springs and their inherent distortions and behaviours are not easily emulated.
I know many people cream their pants over spring reverbs and I've heard many different models myself and can say I'm not hugely enthusiastic about them. I just don't jive with their typical murkiness but it's a personal thing...
Phasers are a good to experiment with before your reverbs too.
But really, believing you need these high end reverbs to sound good is like believing you need a Ferrari to drive to work or pick up the groceries. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Connector
I guess it comes down to how you define good.
A person I know(ish) used to play ice hockey (long time ago) and got drafted to one of the teams in the highest league in Sweden.
Some people called him a good hockey player. And maybe they were right because you cant completely suck if you play at that level.
But if you compare that player to the players in the NHL then it is another story. Suddenly he is not that good. He is at top mediocre.
A good NHL player would probably out play him so hard that he would look bad.
Anybody like soccer? Me neither. But one day youtube recommended a "best of Lionel Messi" video to me. The guy makes players in his own league look like they dont belong there.
And as long as you are comparing other players to him they suck.
And I think of these effects-vst in the same way. Sure they might be good as long as you dont compare them to the gear that have exceptional high sound quality.
That gear makes almost everything else sound lifeless and boring. |
Your thoughts sound like something you read on the internet.
Think for yourself. Listen, don't look.
Valhalla DSP reverbs sound amazing
p.s. liking your soundcloud |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
If you can't get good reverb from a plugin, you will not get it from a �500 hardware reverb either.
There are a lot of spectacularly good reverb plugins out there. |
Agreed.
Very few "pros" are using hardware reverb anymore because they just aren't worth it for all the headache it takes to use them. Any cheap hardware reverb in your budget is going to be worse sounding than a good software reverb costing far less, not to mention added noise and round-trip latency issues.
Then, you have to account for the headache that goes along with using a single digital hardware reverb. Think about it - how many instances of reverbs do most people use in a single song? Let's just say it's 8, minimum (although it's usually more than that for trance/EDM). How are you going to have a single stereo unit handle all that? You'd need to bounce reverb to audio for every instance that you'd use as an insert and as a send *in real-time* (there's no offline/ fast bounce with hardware reverb). Then, what if you decide you want to change the reverb settings, or automate it, or send a little less snare to the send and a little more crash? You'd need to bounce it all to audio again,...and again,...and again,.... and again,... *in real-time* for every time you need to make the smallest adjustment. Your only other options to mix in real-time are to have 8 hardware units, or send everything to the same reverb. It might make more sense if you're only sending a single instrument or set of instruments (e.g., vocals, synth leads) to the hardware, since they're the prominent part where the reverb really makes a difference for space and/or effect, then use plugins for everything else.
This is why most pro tracks you hear these days are made with software reverbs (and because they sound amazing). As for recommendations, here are a bunch (not in any order, but the ones I personally own/use are listed first):
- Valhalla Room, Plate, Vintage Verb (these are awesome and cheap!)
- Exponential Audio Phoenixverb, R2, R4 (now owned/distributed by Izotope and really amazing!)
- 2C Audio Aether and Breeze
- Soundtoys Little Plate or Crystallizer (cool FX reverb)
- Eventide Blackhole or Shimmerverb (specialty/flavor reverbs, not for "real" spaces)
- FabFilter Pro-R
- Lexicon PCM or LXP
- Liquidsonics
- Relab LX480
- Altiverb (never owned it, but always wanted it)
- Overlound Breverb |
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| sr126 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Think about it - how many instances of reverbs do most people use in a single song? Let's just say it's 8, minimum (although it's usually more than that for trance/EDM).
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wow! 8 instances or more? I usually use just 2 reverbs + ambience so 3 instances total. Rarely I'll throw in another if I really need it. Mostly for special FX, like a mono spring reverb or something.
+1 for 2caudio reverbs. That's all I use. Been using their bundle for over decade, and never felt the need to check out anything else. |
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