Originally posted by ziptnf
I'm genuinely confused as to how JEO is so hung up on Democrats playing too much rap at their rallies.
I didn't exactly say it's too much rap for me or in general, although I would have chosen artists with more substance. I was wondering how it goes with people who are or were thinking of switching from Trump to Harris at the last moment, who probably aren't big fans of e.g. Cardi B. I didn't defend Trump, the Republicans, or Trump's rallies, and I'm very much aware of what Trump's been up to in front of his audience, as I've had most of his rallies on for the past weeks while working. I'm slightly confused as to why you suddenly became so defensive, but maybe it's better if I leave the commentary to those who know what's really going on.
quote:
Originally posted by 72hrpartyanimal
To those outside of the US? How do we (Americans) look? Is it laughable? Do we look like idiots? Do you feel for sorry for us?
I may have been a bit too focused on the circus-like rallies instead of.. I don't know what, but the run-up to the election seems somewhat lacking in substance. There have only been three debates, right? One between Biden and Trump, one between Walz and Vance, and one between Harris and Trump*. Other than that it's just rallies and the same more or less toxic rhetoric against each other. A messy mixture of some of the world's biggest podcasters and richest people trying to twist the narrative in one direction or another. Joe Rogan alone probably solidified the intentions of hundreds of thousands of young men to vote for Trump with his Kind of Objective™ interview. Elon Musk literally tried to buy (and I guess succeeded to an extent?) votes for Trump and is brazenly using Twitter as a platform to support Trump. People grow too big in the US.
You don't look like idiots at all, but from what I've witnessed on this forum and elsewhere online between US citizens, it usually doesn't take more than three sentences for the hostility to start between those with opposing viewpoints, which certainly makes you look like you've been very succesfully divided by "someone" (i.e. China, Russia, Iran). You could go into all kinds of detail on how and why a big part of the country's population is overly susceptible to Trump's influence, but I don't exactly see the other side trying to win back any of the hearts or minds in these arguments either. I know it's frustrating to talk to them, but I'm afraid you're pretty much stuck with those kinds of people unless you reform your country on a level that feels unrealistic even to complete political dilettantes like me. So no, not idiots. Rather victims.
*In contrast, we had 14 presidential debates before our previous presidential election, 8 debates between party leaders before our parliamentary election, with possibly tens of less formal debates on podcasts and different venues, and one or two official debates for minor/fringe parties who basically aren't expected to get any seats in parliament. As far as I can tell, no one called anyone a low-IQ individual or a loser.
ziptnf
quote:
Originally posted by JEO
I didn't exactly say it's too much rap for me or in general, although I would have chosen artists with more substance. I was wondering how it goes with people who are or were thinking of switching from Trump to Harris at the last moment, who probably aren't big fans of e.g. Cardi B. I didn't defend Trump, the Republicans, or Trump's rallies, and I'm very much aware of what Trump's been up to in front of his audience, as I've had most of his rallies on for the past weeks while working. I'm slightly confused as to why you suddenly became so defensive, but maybe it's better if I leave the commentary to those who know what's really going on.
Hey man, you're not new here are you? Defensive is my middle name :o
I'm just making it a point that you're calling to attention something that an extremely, extremely small percentage of people actually care about. Perhaps in the past, when I was a teenager, I definitely would have been attracted to poetry recited by civil rights activists. But it's a different time now, and you gotta relate. GOP has no idea how to do this, from a broad appeal perspective. They know where their bread is buttered, and this time around, they have added an extra heaping lump of lard.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by 72hrpartyanimal
To those outside of the US? How do we (Americans) look? Is it laughable? Do we look like idiots? Do you feel for sorry for us?
Oh yes. JEO is just being polite. Your entire country looks absolutely insane. You have a mainstream political party claiming the other side is creating artificial hurricanes and sending them to red states. And people are sending death threats to meteorologists as a result. There's no real looking past that.
72hrpartyanimal
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Oh yes. JEO is just being polite. Your entire country looks absolutely insane. You have a mainstream political party claiming the other side is creating artificial hurricanes and sending them to red states. And people are sending death threats to meteorologists as a result. There's no real looking past that.
It's embarrassing.
JEO
quote:
Originally posted by ziptnf
Hey man, you're not new here are you? Defensive is my middle name :o
I'm just making it a point that you're calling to attention something that an extremely, extremely small percentage of people actually care about. Perhaps in the past, when I was a teenager, I definitely would have been attracted to poetry recited by civil rights activists. But it's a different time now, and you gotta relate. GOP has no idea how to do this, from a broad appeal perspective. They know where their bread is buttered, and this time around, they have added an extra heaping lump of lard.
Yeah I assumed the biggest goal of Harris's campaign would be to potentially swing a substantial amount of Trump voters to vote Democrat, and saw the Milwaukee show especially as not very appealing to such potential swingers, but as I said, it's very difficult for me to assess what matters and what doesn't from this side of the pond. I don't think I've ever had a conversation longer than a few minutes with a Trump voter, so I'm left with the image that something like rap is just a big no-no to most of them, and would matter in this context. I'm positively surprised if it isn't alienating to them. And this is all with the assumption that the rallies themselves matter, since they seem to be the main means of campaigning.
And while I'm not against rap at a political rally per se, I can't with a clear conscience say that I'm not disappointed in modern hip-hop. I grew up with rap that, even if not always explicitly so, still almost always carried an anti-establishment undertone to some extent.
SYSTEM-J
I have a different take on this. I don't think Harris and Trump are trying to convert each other's diehards. Elections are won on swing states and swing voters. Hardcore MAGA Trump fans will obviously hate every single thing about a Democratic rally and I don't think Harris is even trying to appeal to that demographic. Her whole shtick has been "We're normal, reasonable people", emphasising things like abortion rights. She's trying to win the average, suburban, politically disengaged voter by portraying Trump as extreme. And the GOP are doing the same in reverse by painting the Democrats as lunatic wokeists letting immigration run wild while putting trans people above unborn babies and blah blah blah. So the musical choices at a Democratic rally aren't about appealing to Trump votes either.
But here's the kicker: I don't fully agree with Nick either. I don't necessarily think this stuff is about mobilising apathetic Gen Z either. As far as I can tell from the outside, political rallies are mainly about energising the core internal party power base, not winning over floating voters. I don't think anyone's paying to sit in an arena for two hours and listen to a politician proselytise unless they're already fully on board. The Democrats need the hardcore campaigners to enact their ground game for them: knocking on doors, handing out pamphlets, organising at local level. So the rallies are about firing up the people who are already fully committed to the cause, to get them out there believing they have positive momentum. Trump's power base are the MAGA lunatics. I suspect Harris' power base looks more like young non-white women. And I suspect that has a lot to do with the artists they have perform at these things.
ziptnf
Actually, I think white women will be mobilized too. It seems like this go round, the female vote is going to make a big difference. Early polling is showing women coming out in droves. It seems like Harris is favored in a lot of areas. It will take a heroic effort from white men in swing states to win it for Trump.
Sykonee
Take polls with whatever boulder of sodium carbonate you must, but the one out of Iowa this past weekend has turned a LOT of heads. Here's a good breakdown of it:
planetaryplayer
Wrong mineral, kid
Sykonee
quote:
Originally posted by planetaryplayer
Wrong mineral, kid
Ah, so you're right. Should be BIcarbonate! Helpful for those election ulcers.
planetaryplayer
quote:
Originally posted by Sykonee
Ah, so you're right. Should be BIcarbonate! Helpful for those election ulcers.
FYI, I have no idea what I was talking about
72hrpartyanimal
At 7:41PM PST (west coast time), Trump leads 207 to 91. They haven't counted the western (mostly Blue) state results yet but whoever gets to 270 wins.
