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Quote by comedian Dennis Miller about Palestinians (pg. 3)
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| fastmp3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Juricimo
and the "Croatian Nation" is comprised of all Roman Catholic Croatians living in Croatian land, whether that be in Croatia or Bosnia. oh wait! while MOST Croatians ARE Roman Catholic, SOME are NOT! ||||||CONFLICT|||||WARNING||||||
what the hell now? why CAN Muslim Bosnians get along with Croatian Bosnians and the Arab Muslims CAN'T get along with the Israely Jews?
and vice versa......hmmm....crap this reply isnt going anywhere for me:clown:
>JM< |
hehe lemme answer
1st question : 'cause they both been living there for centuries and they share the same "ethnicity"
2nd question : 'cause the jewish immigrants from europe and the rest of the world came 50 years ago and took arab people's land
voila as simple as it is :) |
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| Yoepus |
look, there have been a lot of misfacts and falsehoods stated here, and I would like to get a chance to dismiss and prove them wrong, however my weeks right now have been extremly busy and will endure for another week this way as I finish my finals here in university.
but anyone fimiliar with any of my other posts should be able to find out the solution to the question they arise.
give me time, i will give you answers. |
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| fastmp3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
look, there have been a lot of misfacts and falsehoods stated here, and I would like to get a chance to dismiss and prove them wrong, however my weeks right now have been extremly busy and will endure for another week this way as I finish my finals here in university.
but anyone fimiliar with any of my other posts should be able to find out the solution to the question they arise.
give me time, i will give you answers. |
dude i know you're gonna quote every single word i said but you have to admit i said the truth |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by fastmp3
dude i know you're gonna quote every single word i said but you have to admit i said the truth |
no not u, the others |
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| tranceaholic |
| i agree with fastmp3 halamlek...a jew doesnt have to be israeli here in america we got lots of jews and they never been to israel...i am egyptian and so arab and most of u will say oh then u must be a muslim.nope i am actually catholic..so the crap of of one ethnicity and all that is false...second of all this problem wont go away anytime soon...why u ask? because of relegion..each group has a relegious claim to the land that they refuse to give away...I just always wondered why israel was always intrested in arab lands..being Egyptian and knowing that israel tried to take my country and failed always makes me wonder..what they think we r weak or something hmm who knows? but i dont think this problam will go away..Lets face the facts israeli hate arabs and arabs hate israeli's and all the peace talk in the world will not change the mind of every israeli or every arab which will screw every treaty that will be made.. |
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| Juricimo |
| quote: | Originally posted by fastmp3
hehe lemme answer
1st question : 'cause they both been living there for centuries and they share the same "ethnicity" |
eh somewhat. a clear and concise definition of ethnicity is required here. Muslims & Roman Catholics. As well as different people, the acual Bosnian Muslims (as to what i've been taught) originate from Turk-land as Croats originate from up north from Ukraine-land...no this goes back centuries - Croatia was a kingdom as far back as 900AD or some funky year like that.
| quote: |
2nd question : 'cause the jewish immigrants from europe and the rest of the world came 50 years ago and took arab people's land
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hmm.....cant just go in and take something. those people were persucuted by the devil himself, had to go somewhere, though i truly doubt they just came to Israel and booted the Arabs off. then again, i have no clue as to what the hell i'm talking about in the previous sentence:clown:
>JM< |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by fastmp3
'cause the jewish immigrants from europe and the rest of the world came 50 years ago and took arab people's land
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one of the biggest myths/lies out there about this whole conflict, jews did not steal or take any land.
ok, palestine was under ottoman rule until after WW1 where control went to the UK along with the white papers (balfour declaration 1917) which "viewed in favor of the establishment in palestine of a home for the jewish people".
Jews went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in prodaminently arab areas. for the most part they sought out land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and most importantly without tennets. it was after the jews bought these lands that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many arabs were willing to sell because they were all migrating to the coastal towns that began to boom (acko, haifa, yaffa...) and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry (the basketball sized oranges dennis miller refered too).
the Simpson commission arrived in May 1930 and observed:
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the jews paid high prices for the land, and in addition they payed to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay
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in april 1936 a new outbreak of arab attacks on jews began led by Fawqi alQawukji, commander of the arab liberation army. in november the british sent a new commision headed by lord peel to investigate. the Peel's commission report found that Arab complaints about jewish land acquisition were baseless. it pointed out that:
| quote: | "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased. There was at the time of sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land"
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it also concluded that:
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"[The shortage of land was] due less to the amount of land acquired by jews than to the increase of arab population."
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fact was that arab population in palestine increased 120 percent in 20 years between 1927 and 1947
the report also said that the presence of jews in palestine along with the work of the british mandate had resulted in higher wage, an improved standard of living and ample employment opprotunities.
Transjordan's Kind Abdullah wrote in his memoirs
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It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up the Simpson Commission and by another drawn up by the Peel Commission, that the arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping
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Even at the height of the arab revolt in 1938 the british high commissioner to palestine belived the arab landownders were complaining about sales to jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many arab landowners had been so terrorized by arab rebels that they decided to leave palestine and sell their property to the jews.
analysis of land purchases between 1880 to 1948 show that 73% of jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin. those who sold land included mayors of gaza, jerusalem and jaffa, members of the muslim supreme council, leaders of the arab nationalist movement. even king abdullah sold land along with As'ad el-Shuqeiri, a muslim religious scholar and father of the PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri. in all by 1947 jewish holdings in palestine amounted to 463,000 acres. 387,500 were purchased from arabs (84%), 30,000 bought from various churches (6%) and 45,000 were aquired from the mandatory government (10%). |
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| ahlamalek |
yes...which makes about 4% of all of Palestine... just to put numbers in perspective. Also, when you buy lands, its still part of the country from where you bought it.
What in fact you say, is that Jews were buying land with a hidden agenda of declaring those lands independant, creating a country or whatever else you want to call it. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by ahlamalek
yes...which makes about 4% of all of Palestine... just to put numbers in perspective.
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huh? i dont get it
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Also, when you buy lands, its still part of the country from where you bought it.
What in fact you say, is that Jews were buying land with a hidden agenda of declaring those lands independant, creating a country or whatever else you want to call it. |
at least you'll admit nothing was taken or stolen, thats all im saying.
when you think about it our agenda wasnt all the secret either. i mean there was the balfour declariation (set to make a jewish homeland) and the zionist movement's purpose was to set a homeland for the jewish people... so maybe it wasnt such a hidden agenda after all. |
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| ahlamalek |
what they bought in about 50 years or so amounts to about 9.02% of Israel and about 4-5-6% of the whole of Palestine...
this is a looooong way of saying that jewish were in Palestine and had lands there.... its only a tiny part, and bought.
and yes it was a hidden agenda at that time, now everything is clear, but in the 1890's only the council of zion knew about this plan...
imagine, some chinese people buy lands in california and after a while try to create an independant state?!?! they buy the surface, yes, but underneath and over the surface is the govt proprety and the govt can collect taxes on that superficy... its still a long way from saying, i bought it, well its my country. |
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| Yoepus |
Ok here comes my long and overdue reply to this whole thread and some issues that have arisen in it.
firstly: rupert in regards to your reply, well lets just say I would have liked to insult you, but with your intelligence you wouldn't get offended. If I were you I'd considered suing my brains for non-support.
Great, now that we got that one out of the way lets get to the real issues.
One of the earlier points and main issue was a counter argument on my claim that Israelis are a peoples, moreover they are more of a peoples then the Palestinians. I hope I have disproved that infact the Palestinians are a peoples, the only culture they share is of weeping and crying for losing their land in wars they started, and in my view that doesn't make you a peoples. The example of the Neo-Rhoedians comes to mind. Now we'll skip over that, and I explained in my previous points that I understand a Palestinian peoples exist, I just believe that it is very funny how they gained such legitmacy in many minds. Oh and before I drop this and move on, I will say the Palestiniand 'officially' became a peoples in 1965 with the PLO charter.. this was the first call to independence (on condition of destruction of israel) for a 'peoples' which the charter then goes try to define (poorly) as palestinians, as I quoted from in my first post. There was no independent Palestinian movement before that date, previously it was just Arabs against Israel.
Now Israelis, yes those that started are right in a sense, Israelis aren't a peoples in ethnicity or religion due to the fact that they have Arabs and Christians and Muslims living together in this society. But one most see the point I was making, by Israelis I meant the Jewish people of Israel - after all this is the reaons Israel was founded. Israel was not founded by Christians or Arabs in this area, it was Jews and the Zionist movement. Firstly we must understand that their have been Jews always living in the land currently called Israel, since they arrived back in the good'ol BC days. Second, Israel is still laregly composed of a Jewish majority and hegemony. Jews have shared the same religion (obviously), culture, language, and in essence their civilization wherever they were across the world. This is usually a reason why they have been so heavily persecuted in history, since they were obviously their own group, unique, different, but united. Now telling me that Jews aren't a peoples would be an extremly hard thing to argue, and if anyone would like to try and prove their stupidity to me, you can go on and make a point from this, it will help you greatly.
Ok good.... now we got Jews being a people.. still with me on this one? Ok, now these jews them being all united and persecuted across the world said "damn them bitches" and went to Israel where they came with the INTENT (not hidden.. they're were talks with the Ottomans for a long time for establishing a Jewish homeland in Israel, and it wasn't successful so they settled their anyway, but this is why both the British and Ottomans, or at least one of the excuses they use, restricted severly jewish migration to palestine) to establish a homeland where they can defend themselves, instead of relly on a government from another country, which would just usually persecute and beat them up instead of defending them.
Good.. so your still with me, now the Jews are in Palestine with the intent of making a homeland, they make the homeland give it a name, and they call it Eretz Israel - from here I derive the term Israeli, as in a person from Israel, and using an obvious generalization I assert that an Israeli is a guy in the Jewish homeland, and therefore of a close knit religious-cultural bond uniting them as a peoples.
Obviously, the Jews where not child blood sucking verments as some people would like you to believe, and they did not massacre all Arabs in the land when they got their, in fact they did quiet the opposite and welcomed them to be apart of the nation they would create so long as they live peacefully together. Some Arabs accepted this (the ones currently in Israel, and from here the different sects of religion in the state) and some didn't they made war, most fled, others where expelled DURING THE WAR (no Arabs were kicked out during times of 'peace'.. or under the british, in fact the British only found 100 or so misplaced person on their commision to examine the aqusation and compensated them for the land lord who sold the jews the land, and sold their arab brethern short).
Now, also, just because not all Jews live in Israel, does not make them eligable for 'peoples' status. After all, the Jewish people are united across the world by their ability in times of crises to migrate to Israel where they are welcomed to.
So Arabs, Christians, and Muslim Israelis are indeed Israeli, but Israel is none the less a Jewish homeland created for the intent of protecting the Jews people. The other ethnicities in the area, and other religious groups are granted the privilage of participating in the nation, as it honors its commitment to freedom and democracy.
So their we go.
And lastly, to defend my points against Ahlamalek, I state again that first it was an OPEN intent for Jews to establish a homeland in Israel, if you like I can dig up the documents of those dates and show it to you. Second, obviously the Jews did not buy up all of Israel, but buying up 10% of a country is a very good deal considering most of the territory belongs to the state (the british) and was not for sale, and then arabs who lived there as well. What you see here is that Jews bought land when it wasn't their state when moving to Israel. I don't recall any jews coming during the time of the Ottomans or the British with guns, and telling the 'rock throwing' arabs to get of their land so they can build a settlement there.
Also while I'm On Ahlamalek, can you please try and get yourself a sense of humor... come on can you find the Arab Nation on the map? I know where the Jewish nation is, their is only one - it's called Israel. Damn, it was funny, I guess He who laughs last thinks slowest. |
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| ahlamalek |
dude there's so many wrongs in you argumentation that it doesn't even hold together logically.
anyways, have a nice day. |
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