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Big Brother in America (pg. 2)
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| Izzy |
i have to disagree with you there too...
america has every right to not let anyone they want into their own country, for any reason. if you're not a citizen of the US you are not born with a right "i have the right be in the US"
trust me i go through the same paperwork as you (maybe mine is even worse becuase i have a student visa). i dont look at it as being made out to look like a criminal but rather an check to see if i am allowed to enter the US or not. if feel this hindrence is nessicary for the secuirty of the american people. |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
i have to disagree with you there too...
america has every right to not let anyone they want into their own country, for any reason. if you're not a citizen of the US you are not born with a right "i have the right be in the US"
trust me i go through the same paperwork as you (maybe mine is even worse becuase i have a student visa). i dont look at it as being made out to look like a criminal but rather an check to see if i am allowed to enter the US or not. if feel this hindrence is nessicary for the secuirty of the american people. |
IM not talking about enering, Im talking for when you get stopped on them middle of the highway to just make a CHECK. |
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| Izzy |
woah, ya that would suck balls, never happened to me and didnt know that was happening else were.
but that brings up another issue, here a cop cant pull you over without you committing a wrong. i think thats stupid. agian, in israel (for various reasons) a cop can pull over whom ever he pleases and for no apparent reason. usually this is done by just cops sitting on the side of the road and waving one car to pull over, they then check driver's liscence, car insurance and check for any warrants of arrest. i think thats a pretty cool system... other then the occaisonal hindrence of being pulled over, you get the benifets of having lower car insurance. its a big problem here in texas with all the non-insured drives. just think how it would ease that problem if people got randomly checked for insurance, people would then be caught for this (even if they are perfet drivers) and so wouldnt be stupid and drive without it. also it helps put in jail those who already should be there (those with warrants for thier arrests). |
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| LiquidX |
| Mmmm I would go for it, only if the police guys were friendly, and wont stop me on my way to school .. running late, and them caringless. It was a random check, which they have permission to,they were stoping several cars, but the reason was to check for I dont know...just to check I guess. They even made everyone been stopped get out of the car and so on, they were so rude, they were in pare with Inmigration or something, I dont like that mixing of Police with Inmigration. but w/e . |
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| Thor |
Its simply a matter of this; the US government can enter your house without a warrant, they can hold you without telling you why until later; they can snoop in on a lawyer/client conversation!
Izzy I don't want to sound harsh, you know I like ya man; but this kind of attitude you have is what communist Russia would love..
Think about it, the power that the US government and its agencies has now is nothing short of a police state. I will try to find the article I read that actually compared police powers in Nazi Germany to what the US police powers are today.
Why defend a government that is 'sneaking' by legislation at a time when a country is vulnerable and filled with fear? Do we hear discussion about this? No, its all being done because no polititian is willing to say anything that would sound like they are not 100% supporting the war on terrorism... Its that fear and the fear that they will be ridiculed on CNN for saying anything against the government line
This is the state in the US today, dissent is almost becoming a crime.. With the patriot act they can now investigate you for going to a peace rally! I mean they have full power to look into my computer; do a phone tap, etc.. Just because I attended a peace rally.
The abuse this is causing is major, just ask any Canadian about the ridiculous clampdown on Canadian citizens entering the US.
You can't stop terrorism from happening, no matter how hard you try, one person can always do damage.. Look at Timothy McVey.
You can do your best to stop it without turning into a police state, and thats all that people are asking be done that oppose this ludicrous Patriot Act.
What's next? They build a wall of america around its borders? Ban entry into the US.. Put trackers on all citizens, and why not have cameras in every house to monitor people? I know this is all silly, but the US is walking down a road that is quite frightening. How far are you willing to remove personal freedoms and privacy in order to make your country safer?
That question should be carefully thought out by each US citizen, because right now your rights are less important to government than anyone has ever imagined possible in the land of the free.
Oh and one more thing, the Israeli's are masters of dealing with terrorists, but are they able to stop it either? Hell no, its impossible to stop, you absolutely can not stop it if there are individuals willing to kill for their cause or be killed. So all those phone tappings are not stopping it from happening, lessening it of course, but it could never stop it completely.
We can't live in a prison, and worse be expected to have the rights of prisoners.. Patriot act has to go. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Thor
Izzy I don't want to sound harsh, you know I like ya man;
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dont worry buddy, i respect your views and completely understand where you are coming from... as i said its probably just me not caring to much about my privacy. i dont hold my privacy to much value. as i said, i could care less if someone knows about my behaviuor, what good is it going to do them. actually maybe some good, maybe by tracking my spending behaviour they can create a accurate model for consumer spending and thus help an economy during recession (im way out there i konw). maybe a nazi or communist government will like poeple with my views but until i feel (personally) this breach of privacy hasnt been abused (such as were the cases in the previous two governments) then i really dont care (maybe i should). but ya im all for checks and balances such as the ACLU and the voice of the people to keep the government from overstepping its jurisdiction.
ps. some of the things you said in your last post are so bill maher'ish, aww those were the good days of TV. i hear he's on tour now, wish he would stop by my university. |
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| Thor |
He's on tour?? Well I'm going to find out if he's coming anywhere near me :)
Its really too bad he's gone, honestly it was the one shining light of a sane voice on US based media.
Well there's Michael Moore too, but his TV shows never lasted; thankfully he has his movies... Have you seen Bowling for Columbine yet? I hear its excellent. |
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| biznology |
well the only good thing that could possibly come from all this is,
if the US govt starts keeping tabs on everyone all the time, maybe voter registration will go away and more people will show up to vote!
not sure tho| |
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| Arbiter |
Why do we so desperately want to build a society where everyone lives until they're 90 and dies in their sleep, where everyone has a good job and a nice family and spend their lives just accumulating stuff to pass the time until they die?
What are we trying to accomplish?
Bad things have to happen, or else we wouldn't be able to appreciate the good things in life. Giving up our privacy and our freedom in a futile quest to stop bad things from happening when bad things are still necessary for happiness is the most retarded course of action I could possibly imagine. It would be more rationally justifiable to commit mass suicide. |
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| ahlamalek |
police doing stuff(wiretap, aresstation, searches etc etc) without a warrant is completley wrong simply because it makes you automatically guilty.
Normally, for them to get a warrant, they need to prove a judge that you might be a risk to society, etc etc
The law system in north america grants anyone of being innocent until proven he is not and that without a doubt...
Izzy think about saying something silly on the phone and they automatically arrest you for it...
is it harder to prove yourself innocent by shading doubts over your guiltyness...
or for you to be automatically guilty and then prove them you are innocent without a doubt?
think about it. |
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