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Settle another TA Argument
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| halo20 |
Holy , this argument is getting on my nerves!!
I've come to the experts....please answer honestly, and truthfully. |
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| halo20 |
Woops, I forgot to mention...
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Sasha (and for that matter Holden) have never produced a trance track |
^ Listen to him, he knows what he's talking about. If you think he might be wrong, he'll dispell a god damn essay about you. |
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| fantom |
| quote: | Originally posted by halo20
Holy , this argument is getting on my nerves!!
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Hey, hey now!
Please refrain from using the foul language on this message board... for 's sake! :D:D
Btw, where is sooper when you need him to throw in a couple of those "no sense" observations on this subject? |
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| TECHno addict |
| Oops, i picked prog breaks by accident......take away my vote!!! |
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| halo20 |
| ^ Jeff you crack me up. LOL |
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| infinity HiGH |
| what the is progressive breaks? and are we voting for preference? or what? |
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| TECHno addict |
| Wouldnt you call Hybrid progressive breaks?!!?!? |
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| halo20 |
Read the question. hahahahh Not preference, just state your opinion on the track. Is Xpander a trance song, or progressive breaks song?
We are debating over genres.
Pete see you on saturday, weeeeee. |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by halo20
Is Xpander a trance song, or progressive breaks song?
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Xpander? It's neither...between those 2 choices its more trance than prog breaks cuz of the melodic synths, but thats not enough to classify it. I'd call it more like progressive melodic house...or something to that extent
and btw, genre debates are pointless...many people have a different definations of different genres.
Heh, hopefully we'll see eachother...right now its not lookin too good :( I'm so frickin sick its not even funny
*sneezes all over the monitor*
someone pass me a tissue?? lol |
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| j_spot |
either way, if its to debate if James holden or Sasha has ever done a trance track, what do you call James Holden-One for you
or Accadia-Into the Dawn(james Holden Mix)
memory may serve me wrong, but I would most certainly call those trance |
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| Kytracid |
WARNING !!! This is a long and tedious post. Read it only if you wish to understand my point of view regarding the "James Holden Playing at Kool Haus" post. TA's who favor brevity (among other less admirable traits) are better off reading what Halo posts.
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Halo obviously has an active imagination...either that, or he just seems to read what he wants. I never said XPander was a progressive breaks track. I termed it as progressive because in my mind that is what it is.
The same goes for Holdens tracks in my opinion. And here's the critical point. It's MY OPINION. Even 'one for you' which has several trancey remixes (Altitude Remix) and 'Horizon' which i can see being termed as a trance song in my mind are progressive because they are outside the mould of typical trancer like "1998", "Madagascar" or "Gouryella". I stand by my statement and the one's i made earlier that Sasha and Holden have not produced Trance songs because I believe they both produce progressive beats. I can see how the case can be argued both ways concerning Holden, but Sasha ? He's always been a progressive DJ. Most of the songs he spins i would say are in the progressive house area, whereas most of the tunes he produces have more of the spacial airy quality that Infinity High refers to in his post. I could understand some making a case that they are too slow to be progressive, and perhaps they are, but who's to say that all progressive has to be danceable. Most of Sasha's new material is easy listening in my opinion and very few of his tracks would work in a progressive set. Most (and i'm not saying all...but quite a few) also have breaks as a main component. Layers and Layers of beautifully crafted, soft breaks lined on top of one another...It's difficult to classify his music, that's why i refere to it loosely as progressive.
I disagree completely when Halo says that Xpander is a trance song, because in my mind Xpander is the very definition of a progressive track. Please note, when i first went against Halo's opinion (in the James Holden POST), it was just that, a clash of opinions. Unfortunately instead of arguing his point constructively he proceeded to flame me for the next few posts until i retaliated and did the same. ( I'll agree, i'm just as bad as him when provoked ;))
I'm not opposed to someone saying i'm wrong. I have been wrong many times before, and admited it. I made a mistake in naming a track and did apologize for it. But if your intention is simply to point out other people's mistakes then you should be prepared to have it done to you as well. That's just the way it works in a public forum where your posts are a reflection of your personality.
So what is progressive ? I've heard several definitions and most people seem to agree that it is hard to classify what makes a tune progressive, and it is. Classifying electronic music is not without pitfalls because everyone has their own take and no one man can actually claim to have given birth to a certain type of genre. In my mind a progressive track may have trance elements, but it is also likely to have other elements like house and breaks. It doesn't have to be dark or boring like so many people like to believe, and can have melody. You don't have to agree with me, because this is only my interpretation of what i have heard over the last 5-6 years.
My reason for saying that Sasha and Holden don't make trance tracks is simple. Lets look at a few of their tracks.
Sasha - Rabbitweed
Sasha - Wavy Gravy
Sasha - Xpander
Sasha - Belfunk
Sasha - Fundamental
Sasha - Boileroom
Holden - Nothing
Holden - Horizons
Holden - Put out the Light
Holden - Solistace
Holden (Ogenki Clinc) - First Light
Holden (Ogenki Clinc) - Keriki
These guys in my opinion make progressive tracks. They might have melody in their tracks but that doesn't make them TRANCE (if only that simpleton Halo understood this, he wouldn't need to get into this pissing competition )
Look at most of Sasha's work and you will see that he leans towards progressive songs which have breaks and house influences more then trance. Holden is harder to classify, with his acidic bouncy loops and melodic breakdowns but i would still say that he is progressive, not trance. In my opinion, trance...real trance (as opposed to the euro-pop ) is examplifed by the work done by producers like PVD, Armin van Burren, Ferry Corsten, PUSH, Art of Trance, Tiesto, Plastik Angel, Thrillseekers, Agnelli and Nelson, Tiesto etc...And even with these guys there is a lot of variety. What is specifically labelled trance to one man may just be electronic music to another. Who is to say, when even a man like Paul van Dyk doesn't typecast his music.
This difficulty in conclusively labelling what a particular brand of music is largely due to the fact that no set definition exists (once again, if only Halo realized this he wouldn't need to whip his dick out everytime someone disagreed with his opinion...alas we all have to suffer in the presence of this dogmatic individual who feels it is his responsibilty to go around correcting everyone's opinion.) Most people are content with listening to the music they enjoy and labelling it as they see fit, afterall...most of these sub genere's weren't created by the producers themselves, they were dreamed up by magazines and reviewers which wanted to put into words the main musical elements which the song is composed from.
These days it's even more difficult to classify music because of all the blending of different genera's resulting in offshoot terms like tech-trance, tech-house, nu-sckool breaks, dark house, prog house, prog-breaks . What i'm trying to say here is that even if someone were to say that Tiesto's - Obsession track is more progressive then trance , because there are elements of it in the song...the same way that there are trance elements in it as well. This is something that Halo just doesn't seem to get into his head. Ultimately grouping music is a personal thing, none of us here are experts (at least i don't claim to be one) so when you post about a song and it's genre, you are merely giving your opinion which i think everyone should be entitled to. If you feel someone else is wrong, then at least be constructive in your approach, simply calling them a "moron", or "so and so is an idiot for saying that" is just childish and reflects only one thing to me. That you just want to be percieved as being right and that you feel you are the be all and end all when it comes to the subject.
His stubborness at accepting anothers point of view is what irked me about Halo. This need to always be percieved as right, and always correct others was further compounded by his poor sense of reasoning which only serves to hiding the fact that he is a classic example of a messageboard bully, one who will use pathetic execues like his friends ( I don't even know why he needs to reiterate that he has so many friends here...so what dude ? are you trying to impress me by saying that you know a bunch of guys online ? ) to attack people who may disagree with him. Why someone would behave like this is beyond me, perhaps low self esteem, perhaps just a case of boredome, or maybe there is a deeper root which i don't really wish to delve into. But here's a little test for the skeptics...disagree with him and watch what happens...Chances are he'll immediately tag you in with an ever growing group that comprises of Dr Z, Tranceludek and Me along with God knows who else he has managed to drive away from this board with disparaging terms like 'ignorant' or 'moronic'. The facts speak for themselves, and the proof is before your very eyes...this guy has had the same problem with at 'least' three people who have disagreed with his opinion...now it's up to you to figure out if all three of us are wrong on different issues, or whether Halo and his sidekicks have just made it a habit of flooding this board with their senseless comments.
Still not convinced ? Then look at our history on this board and then compare it to his, you'll see a lot of talk about it being about the music but most of his posts are flames (DJ's or other TA's) or correcting other peoples opinions (which he conveniantly terms as flagrant mistakes). The fact that he is supported by an able cast of his croonies (friends) who seem equally at ease in helping him win an 'argument' doesn't make what is happening any better, if anything it is a sign of how the original spirit of this board just seems to be waning. Notice how many posts we have had recently about the lack of women on this forum ? ( I am not saying this is due to Halo or anyone in particular, but as a long time observer of the Toronto forum i have seen the quality of it's content dip over the last few months and the reason for this decline is just beginning to dawn on me. )
And now this Poll...What purpose does it exactly serve ? Does popular opinion now dictate what ones opinions should be based on ? Because i can bet you that as soon as Halo's pick takes a commanding lead in this poll (which i anticipate will happen) he will start spewing how he is once again right and I am wrong. On second thoughts, I hope it happens, because it will reveal once again to this forum what this persons real agenda is.
Just a quick thought on polls though, since Halo seems to have choosen this method of public opinion to settle a personal argument. If polls are right, and poll results are indicative of the truth, then what is your explaination for critizing DJ Tiesto in the James Holden thread ? Surely a man with all your musical knowledge was aware that he was voted #1 DJ in the world by a very reputed poll. Or are you going to say next, that the 50,000+ people who voted on that poll were all wrong in thier opinion as well ?
My guess is the reason for this poll is to win the argument by getting a bunch of his 'friends' to vote in his favor while also stacking the odds by blatantly twisting my words in saying that Xpander is a progressive-breaks track. The fact that this is a tranceaddict board surely helps the cause...i mean who is going to say it's progressive when most people here are avid fans of trance ? The opinions of this forum will always be biased, and i can prove this by carrying out another simple test. Going to the GU boards (predominantly progressive) and posing the same question. I asked Halo to do the same, but he didn't...Why ? Because he'll be proved wrong, and that i suspect is what he fears most.
So listen Halo, i'll make it easy for you and feed your brusied ego what it so sorely needs...i'll accept that Sasha is a trance producer ! I'll accept I was wrong and you were right. Why ? In the interest of maintaing this boards integrity of course...
So there, I guess that settles the little pissing competition between us...you win, I lose, you retain your position as the omniscient light on this forum and the rest of us will just accept what you say as Gods truth...I hope that satisfies your inflated ego. Now all you need to do is reel your dick back in and get the out my face.
Everything that has happened in the last 2 days just saddens me, because i can remember a time when this board used to encourage healthy discussions, and posting here was actually something I enjoyed doing...but like all good things that seems to be comming to an end, and that, not the insufferable presence of people like Halo is a real loss for the rest of us.
Kytracid the 'Essay Man'
(Go ahead Halo...call this post another 'Essay' and laugh it off. It doesn't really make any difference...What little respect i had for your knowledge for music has already been undermined by your school boy attitude when it comes to dealing with people on this forum) |
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| Fir3start3r |
Hmmmm....while I agree with Kytracid on most points I think I'd have to say "XPander" is not progressive breaks.
While Sasha may indeed have a lot of stuff that leans towards a progressive side, I don't necessarily think this is true for Xpander.
To me, progressive beats don't necessarily stick to a 4-4 beat like Xpander does and the synth melody is definately not one of a progressive style at all.
Xpander is just too light to be consider progressive.
To me progressive is almost on the edge of tribal / house without the congos or 'African' feel of the drums, but has that same mantra that drives it forward.
Side Note:
I'd have to that Hybrid is more a definate example of Big Beat (like Chemical Brothers) than a Progressive Beat.
While I don't like pigeon-holeing artists (and I'm sure they don't apprecieate it), they do have their own style sometimes that is hard to define, but distinctive, which leads us to believe they must belong to a certain gendre.
I say, enjoy the music...
:cool: |
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