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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
Do you think the US or your country qualifies under the 14 points?
You do not have permission to vote on this poll.
Yes, I do because... 4 40.00%
No, I don't because... 3 30.00%
Maybe, because... 3 30.00%
Total: 10 votes 100%
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
The thing is, Fir3start3r, if you want to believe that the argument is just a Liberal vs Conservative one - well, I'll just say you could very well go to your grave trying to figure it out because that's not where the focus of the argument should be.

Anyway, I hope that one day you may better understand the endless circle in which you're arguing by trotting that old, worn, Liberal vs. Conservative line. It's just ignorant in light of the fact that world politics are rough-hewn from a never ending pallete of contiguous, but assorted hues. (It's far from being black and white, or Liberal vs Conservative.)


Um...hello?

Did you actually read the question regarding the poll are you still too busy trying to figure me out??
quote:

Do you think the US or your country qualifies under the 14 points?


quote:
Originally posted by ogvh5150
What you can do is argue whether or not these points apply and stop defending Dubya. By defending him you're denying the points and leaves you in the position that you agree with the points stated. Unless you can prove otherwise you're pretty much telling me that it's okay to lock up people with no right to trial and to torture them.

You're just as lost as Trancer-X when it comes to my reply in this post. Did you not hug Trancer-X when you rolled over this morning? (kidding!)
I post points regarding how I feel my Canadian government and I'm defending Bush? Riiiiiiight....

You guys seriously need to climb some other tree because I've already answered my apparent "pro-Bush" stance >>HERE<<
So step off already...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-10-2005 00:47  Canada
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Um...hello?

Did you actually read the question regarding the poll are you still too busy trying to figure me out??



You're just as lost as Trancer-X when it comes to my reply in this post. Did you not hug Trancer-X when you rolled over this morning? (kidding!)
I post points regarding how I feel my Canadian government and I'm defending Bush? Riiiiiiight....

You guys seriously need to climb some other tree because I've already answered my apparent "pro-Bush" stance >>HERE<<
So step off already...


Duh, I was responding to your post where you are quoting all those sources regarding your "Liberal" party. Substitute "Liberal" with "Conservative" and you have the same shit being said about the government in my country. Jeeebus, is that so freakin' hard to figure out?!

Should I start quoting my own posts so that you might finally get the hint? (Hint meaning, "hey dumbass, look at THISSSSS!!!!")


quote:
A caveat is in order: as with any other political philosophy, an abstract explanation of liberalism refers to an ideal. In practice, politicians make pragmatic compromises (see centrism), have personal interests, and may pander to voters, so that the ideal is never a perfect description of any one individual's politics. Further, as with any other political philosophy, liberalism in any of its forms is defined somewhat differently by its proponents and its opponents.

Old Post Oct-10-2005 00:56  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Duh, I was responding to your post where you are quoting all those sources regarding your "Liberal" party. Substitute "Liberal" with "Conservative" and you have the same shit being said about the government in my country. Jeeebus, is that so freakin' hard to figure out?!


Oh please...

You're the only one substituting and putting words in my mouth.
That wasn't the intent at all, but I guess you're busy defending PDD status quo here.

I have my government, you have yours.
If you want to substitute Liberal with Conservative and then make some flaky, psychosomatic connection with Bush everytime I talk about the Canadian Liberal party then be my guest.
I'm just sorry you seem to think I'm typing, "between the lines" when it was really a straightforward response to a simple question.

quote:

Should I start quoting my own posts so that you might finally get the hint? (Hint meaning, "hey dumbass, look at THISSSSS!!!!")

No but you could start posting some actual support for the question being asked in this thread; that would be a start.
I guess getting my face is distracting huh?

I do appolgize ogvh5150 about the rather large edit after posting the pic. I didn't actually mean to "Submit" at the time
I could see why'd you be confused...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-10-2005 01:25  Canada
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
You're either amazingly stupid or f**king delusional.


If you knew anything about Canadian politics you'd know I'm right...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-10-2005 01:26  Canada
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
You're the only one substituting and putting words in my mouth.
That wasn't the intent at all...


If you want to substitute Liberal with Conservative and then make some flaky, psychosomatic connection with Bush everytime I talk about the Canadian Liberal party then be my guest.


Uhhhhh, where in my post did I say ANYTHING about Bush?

I guess I'll have to repeat myself once again... I was talking about the general misuse of two words which really pertain to ideologies and not political parties.

Anyway, the Neo-cons aren't really conservative, they just adopted that platform because it was popular - so any argument you make to the contrary is null and void.




quote:
Who are the neo-conservatives? Ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism's long march to power with Ronald Reagan. A neo-conservative is more likely to be a magazine editor than a brick layer, he's likely to be a resident scholar at a public policy institute such as the American Enterprise Institute.

- Pat Buchanan, as printed in the American Conservative







___________________
quote:
"Learn, child, to catch a hint through whatever agency it may be given. 'Sermons may be preached through stones."

- Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Letters from the Masters of Wisdom, first series, p. 74, letter 31

Old Post Oct-10-2005 01:46  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r

No but you could start posting some actual support for the question being asked in this thread; that would be a start.
I guess getting my face is distracting huh?


Do I really NEED to post support for the question? It would seem to me that the original author framed it in such a way that the actions of my government have encompassed all of those points listed, with the exception of #5 (as shaolin_z already said)

Old Post Oct-10-2005 02:00  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
If you knew anything about Canadian politics you'd know I'm right...


If you had a clue about American politics you would know that you're gravely mistaken.

Old Post Oct-10-2005 02:20  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Uhhhhh, where in my post did I say ANYTHING about Bush?

I guess I'll have to repeat myself once again... I was talking about the general misuse of two words which really pertain to ideologies and not political parties.

Anyway, the Neo-cons aren't really conservative, they just adopted that platform because it was popular - so any argument you make to the contrary is null and void.



Are we actually arguing about who's government is worse?
Ugh...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-10-2005 02:59  Canada
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by ogvh5150
What you "found" on the net is actually a comment posted by someone who runs a blog. That person just chooses to bash as if he the blogger actually is a credible source. His is plagiarized commentary mixed with text of the newspaper online article. He offers no worthwhile information.

You actually went for the first hit on a Google Search for Lawrence Britt didn't you? Too bad, I was really looking forward for your original ideas.

As for your second part:

Chip Berlet is recipient of Ford Foundation money. Some would argue that the Ford Foundation is a CIA front. This same entity has funded Planned Parenthood and other population studies.

But as with any conspiracy theory it must be in the movies starring Bruce Willis or Nicolas Cage for it to be credible information.


Organization: Political Research Associates
Purpose: To study the college and university campus leadership and outreachprograms of major national organizations and social movements andtheir relationship to political environment on campuses
Location: SOMERVILLE, MA
Program: Peace and Social Justice
Unit: Governance and Civil Society
Subject: Civil Society
Amount: $ 175, 000
Year: 2002
Click for wayback machine archive

Anyone can look at the original text here:
Fascism Anyone?

City: Looking at the world right now, do you consider the US a fascist state?
Britt: No. By definition it's a democracy. My article is a cautionary tale. This is what I've researched; this is what I've seen; this is what's happened in the past. You can draw your own conclusions: No, this has nothing to do with the United States; or, there are some disquieting trends here that we certainly have to be aware of, and the powers that be exhibit many of these characteristics, and we'd better damn well be careful.

Fascism in America?


Of course we're not a fascist state... yet. But looking at the way things are heading, it might not be too far in the future that we see some further sweeping changes that make the Patriot Act look like a walk in the park to us civil libertarians.

I'm scared that the next serious attack will permanently change life in this country as we know it.

Old Post Oct-10-2005 03:32  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
The dawn of a new century and millennium is upon us and prompts many to reflect on our past and prepare for the future. Our nation, divinely blessed, has much to be thankful for. The blessings of liberty resulting from the republic our forefathers designed have far surpassed the wildest dreams of all previous generations.

The form of government secured by the Declaration of Independence, the American Revolution, and the Constitution is unique in history and reflects the strongly held beliefs of the American Revolutionaries.

At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic if you can keep it" responded Franklin.

The term republic had a significant meaning for both of them and all early Americans. It meant a lot more than just representative government and was a form of government in stark contrast to pure democracy where the majority dictated laws and rights. And getting rid of the English monarchy was what the Revolution was all about, so a monarchy was out of the question.

The American Republic required strict limitation of government power. Those powers permitted would be precisely defined and delegated by the people, with all public officials being bound by their oath of office to uphold the Constitution. The democratic process would be limited to the election of our leaders and not used for granting special privileges to any group or individual nor for defining rights.

Federalism, the binding together loosely of the several states, would serve to prevent the concentration of power in a central government and was a crucial element in the new Republic. The authors of the Constitution wrote strict limits on the national government and strove to protect the rights and powers of the states and the people.

Dividing and keeping separate the legislative, executive, and the judiciary branches, provided the checks and balances thought needed to preserve the Republic the Constitution created and the best way to preserve individual liberty.

The American Revolutionaries clearly chose liberty over security, for their economic security and their very lives were threatened by undertaking the job of forming a new and limited government. Most would have been a lot richer and safer by sticking with the King. Economic needs or desires were not the driving force behind the early American patriotic effort.

The Revolution and subsequent Constitution settled the question as to which authority should rule man's action: the individual or the state. The authors of the Constitution clearly understood that man has free will to make personal choices and be responsible for the consequences of his own actions. Man, they knew, was not to be simply a cog in a wheel, or a single cell of an organism, or a branch of a tree, but an individual with a free will and responsibility for his eternal soul as well as his life on earth. If God could permit spiritual freedom, government certainly ought to permit the political freedom that allows one to pursue life's dreams and assume one's responsibilities. If man can achieve spiritual redemption through grace, which allows him to use the released spiritual energy to pursue man's highest and noblest goals, so should man's mind, body, and property be freed from the burdens of unchecked government authority. The Founders were confident that this would release the creative human energy required to produce the goods and services that would improve the living standards of all mankind.



quote:
The key element in a free society is that individuals should wield control of their own lives, receiving the benefits and suffering the consequences of all their acts. Once the individual becomes a pawn of the state, whether a monarch or a majority runs the state, a free society can no longer endure. We are dangerously close to that happening in America, even in the midst of plenty and with the appearance of contentment. If individual freedom is carelessly snuffed out, the creative energy needed for productive pursuits will dissipate. Government produces nothing, and in its effort to redistribute wealth, can only destroy it.

- HON. Ron Paul (January 31 & February 2, 2000)

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/c...00/cr020200.htm

Old Post Oct-10-2005 03:42  United States
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ogvh5150
Formula 1 Addict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: F1 2008 Red Bull Racing/BMW Sauber

quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
That's exactly why I didn't post my own thoughts on the matter, I went for a source that did have some objective validity.

I can post my thoughts on the issue all I want, but I wanted to find some sources from people that I felt did know what they were talking about.

I'll post my opinions, and the facts I know such as in medicine/biology, but I don't see other people getting upset when quotes are used from others, so I'm not sure why I'm in a different boat.


What you "found" on the net is actually a comment posted by someone who runs a blog. That person just chooses to bash as if he the blogger actually is a credible source. His is plagiarized commentary mixed with text of the newspaper online article. He offers no worthwhile information.

You actually went for the first hit on a Google Search for Lawrence Britt didn't you? Too bad, I was really looking forward for your original ideas.

As for your second part:

John Foster Chip Berlet partially shares his name with John Foster Dulles (Council on Foreign Relations founding member) whose brother Allen brought about the Central Intelligence Agency when Allen was in it's predecessor, the Office of Strategic Services.

Chip is recipient of Ford Foundation money. Some would argue that the Ford Foundation is a CIA front. This same entity has funded Planned Parenthood and other population studies.

Organization: Political Research Associates
Purpose: To study the college and university campus leadership and outreachprograms of major national organizations and social movements andtheir relationship to political environment on campuses
Location: SOMERVILLE, MA
Program: Peace and Social Justice
Unit: Governance and Civil Society
Subject: Civil Society
Amount: $ 175, 000
Year: 2002
Click for wayback machine archive

Anyone can look at the original text here:
Fascism Anyone?

City: Looking at the world right now, do you consider the US a fascist state?
Britt: No. By definition it's a democracy. My article is a cautionary tale. This is what I've researched; this is what I've seen; this is what's happened in the past. You can draw your own conclusions: No, this has nothing to do with the United States; or, there are some disquieting trends here that we certainly have to be aware of, and the powers that be exhibit many of these characteristics, and we'd better damn well be careful.

Fascism in America?


___________________

Old Post Oct-10-2005 03:45 
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by ogvh5150
John Foster Dulles (Council on Foreign Relations founding member) whose brother Allen brought about the Central Intelligence Agency when Allen was in it's predecessor, the Office of Strategic Services.


It's funny you should mention Allen Dulles. I was just talking about him the other day...

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...118#post5091118

Old Post Oct-10-2005 03:52  United States
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