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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > DJ Booth > Bringing In The Bass
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Dj Flesch
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA

I'll explain why this happens to the bass. I hope that everyone at least knows what a sine wave looks like. If not then you can see one here . So I'm going to just talk about two single bass beats and assume that there is no other interference from any other part of the track. Given that:

Bass beat 1 (the live beat) beats at a certain bpm. Your objective as a dj, is to adjust bass beat 2 (the cue beat) to the same bpm and the same phase as bass beat 1.

So you have the sine wave of the live bass and you hear the sound when the wave hits a maximun or a minimum. Look at picture "a" at the above link if you need a picture. The beat starts at 0 on the timeline and every time you hear a beat the wave is at +1 or -1 on the y-axis. This holds true for the cue beat also.

So now comes the time when you have both beats matched and you are ready to play them live at the same time. Well, since you don't know which beat is at +1 and which is at -1 (because they are indistinguishable by ear--if you want to know how you can go about detecting it, I'll elaborate to replies, though it's not an experiment that you yourself can perform without expensive equipment) you know if you have the beats synched, but you don't know if you have them in phase yet. Now, don't confuse being in-phase or out-of-phase with phrase matching. There are two possible senerios:

In-phase means that the waves of both bass beats are at +1 at the same time, and hence at -1 at the same time too. When this occurs, the two waves will add together, and you will get an over-powering/double (1 + 1 = 2) bass signal. This is why most djs will turn the bass eq down on the live track as they bring in the cue track--if they don't, the bass will kick twice as hard and this can cause distortion, and even speaker damage depending on how loud it is.

The second case occurs when the two beats are out-of-phase. This occurs when beat 1 is at +1 when beat 2 is at -1, and vise-versa. When this happens, then the waves still add, though 1 + (-1) = 0, and you have cancelation--you will hear no bass beat. This is the problem that you are inquiring about.

So why you ask, do you hear a beat that is just reduced in volume and not none at all, and also how do you go about fixing this?

First, you hear a bass beat reduced in volume for a couple of different reasons. 1. it is very hard to get the beats "matched" as far as truly and completely matched goes. Your ears, however well trained, can never (unless you're lucky once or twice) ever get two beats perfectly matched. The speed of sound is about 760 miles/hour and varies with temperature etc. You CAN however, get them matched enough so as not even the best trained ear can distinguish them (if you're good. The second reason you hear only a reduction in volume is because more than likely, the bass beat of each track was not made by the same instrument and hence doesn't have the same frequency range as the other beat. Take forinstance, beat 1, with a frequency range from 40Hz to 45Hz and beat two from 43.5Hz to 54Hz. While each beat has its own frequencies, and each one overlaps a portion, there is still part of the beat that is not effected. Beat 1 will have no (very little at intersecting or overlap nodes to get technical) cancelation effect between 40Hz and 43.4Hz while beat two will have no cancelation effect between 45.1Hz and 54Hz. This mean that you get a parital bass signal, but reduced in overall volume due to elimination of certain frequencies.


One thing to note, not to confuse those who use programs like winamp and soundforge. In Soundforge, you can zoom up on the wave of an entire track and it appears to be one single, continuous line. This is not really an accurate picture. If you have winamp, and you have the spectrum analyzer on peaks instead of wave/oscilliscope, then you see all the frequencies of the track being displayed (supposedly each frequency per bouncing line) at any INSTANT in time. Think of this as a frontal view. Soundforge, however displays the side view, so that you can travel along the wave in time, though you cannot see any individual frequency, you can only see the sum of all of the frequencies. You can only perceive the entire waveform in 3 dimensions.

Old Post Oct-02-2002 22:14  United States
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JohnSmith
Agent Smith



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Kamloops

you are a veritable fountain of good information flesch!

i knew, MOST of that alredy, but you explained it completely and clearly, thanks for that.

i wish DJ mixers had 3d displays of sound waves, one in one color, one in another, like yellow and blue, then in the middle they mixed and made green..

that would be wicked. and i'm going to build it.

Old Post Oct-02-2002 23:57  Canada
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Dj Flesch
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA

quote:
Originally posted by JohnSmith
you are a veritable fountain of good information flesch!

i knew, MOST of that alredy, but you explained it completely and clearly, thanks for that.

i wish DJ mixers had 3d displays of sound waves, one in one color, one in another, like yellow and blue, then in the middle they mixed and made green..

that would be wicked. and i'm going to build it.


Well, thank you very much It's nice to know that my long-ass posts are read by at least one person I'll tell you, though, I majored in Chemistry in my BS with a biology minor and physics and math concentrations, and especially the physics concentration has helped me quite a bit in figuring out how to dj better. Also I know a lot about stereo setups and electronics, and that helps me enormously too!

Old Post Oct-03-2002 02:02  United States
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JohnSmith
Agent Smith



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Kamloops

me too buddy.

well, i didn't major in chemistry, but i did take math 11, 12, and physics 11, and 12, which was all i could get.

I also took some mathematics and college classes in college.
it's all just numbers!

I have a diploma in computer science, that has helped immensly with my DJing too. I plan on building many things with my knowledge, including hopefully my dream mixer, 4 channel quadraphonic, parametric EQs, 3d displays for each channel and main channel, as well as integrated looping, sampling, and control of visual elements, and not just beat counting, but beat keeping.

ah, my head is getting in the clouds again.. back to my tech12m3ds and vestax PCV275 i guess for now. :P

Old Post Oct-03-2002 06:33  Canada
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Devbert
Dutch Trance Worshipper



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: California

Dj Flesch, that is some helpful shit.


___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

Old Post Oct-03-2002 06:41  United States
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SeventhSun
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Here
Monkey Dancer 2 Regarding volume

I have a Vu meter only for the playing track

A good rule of thumb i use is that vinyl with 2 tracks on one side are always quieter than a 1 track one side record,

so if you're mixing into a 2 track one side record boost volume
and vice versa

also a 1track one side record will be louder in 33 rpm than 45

if this is confusing e-mail me
peace

Old Post Oct-03-2002 14:48  Canada
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