A lot of right wingers use socialism and liberalism as dirty words and use them to describe anything in which benefits the people run by the government...whether it's universal healthcare, tuition help, lowering of taxes on the middle class, progressive taxation, allowing of gay marriage/civil unions, government oversight on corporations, uh a lot of stuff like that. Some of this stuff is neccessary, if only it is to help the little guy. But I guess I am just a liberal so I agree with these ideas.

Sometimes when they say "oh Canada, they are just a bunch of liberals" makes me think they are jealous cause Canada has much less problems than the US does. Still not a perfect country (no country is) and has corruption, but it definitely seems to not have the same reputation the US does...only in the eyes of right wingers who feel it's the worst place in the world cause it's got liberal or socialist-lite programs. In the end, the US has similar programs too, but they are pretty unreliable for the most part, esp our health care system.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Feb-03-2007 at 05:47

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 A lot of right wingers use socialism and liberalism as dirty words and use them to describe anything in which benefits the people run by the government...whether it's universal healthcare, tuition help, lowering of taxes on the middle class, progressive taxation, allowing of gay marriage/civil unions, government oversight on corporations, uh a lot of stuff like that. Some of this stuff is neccessary, if only it is to help the little guy. But I guess I am just a liberal so I agree with these ideas. Sometimes when they say "oh Canada, they are just a bunch of liberals" makes me think they are jealous cause Canada has much less problems than the US does. Still not a perfect country (no country is) and has corruption, but it definitely seems to not have the same reputation the US does...only in the eyes of right wingers who feel it's the worst place in the world cause it's got liberal or socialist-lite programs. In the end, the US has similar programs too, but they are pretty unreliable for the most part, esp our health care system.

Yeah...

Last time I checked our economy utilized both socialist and capitalist models; so, more and more, does China.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Yeah... Last time I checked our economy utilized both socialist and capitalist models; so, more and more, does China.

Yeah but China's attempt isn't the same as Canada or Europe, it stems from a Soviet-styled communism, rather than just plain socialism. More so...it would be communism mixed with capitalism, rather than socialism mixed with capitalism, that Canada and parts of Europe have. Clearly, those countries aren't "communist" as China is, they are just a better mixture of socialism and capitalism than we are.

The U.S. is much more capitalistic than many other countries, and China is using capitalism as a means to make it seem less like a Stalin or Mao type communism. In other words....it's capitalism is being used as a means of control, on it's people and other parts of the world. Scary thing is..China is having so much control over the world market and will surpass the U.S. as a super-power.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Feb-04-2007 at 03:07

Anytime governments talk about taking ANYTHING from businesses, businesses pack up, leave and do business somewhere else.
Who the hell wants government taking their profits?? They're the worst entity to be doing anything private businesses should be taking care of.
If anything, the government should be directing businesses and granting incentives for those that choose energy efficiency.

If anything, Clinton should be a BIG red flag if that's her line of thinking, especially with the current American debt load...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Anytime governments talk about taking ANYTHING from businesses, businesses pack up, leave and do business somewhere else. Who the hell wants government taking their profits?? They're the worst entity to be doing anything private businesses should be taking care of. If anything, the government should be directing businesses and granting incentives for those that choose energy efficiency. If anything, Clinton should be a BIG red flag if that's her line of thinking, especially with the current American debt load...

I think Clinton's strategy is to pay off the national debt using the corporate profits. I doubt she'll have any success though. I am worried she probably has some hidden agenda. The whole development of anternative energy is quite simpler - instead of wasting billions and billions of dollars on stupid failed missile shield defense, that money is enough for developing and market-producing technology available to decrease dependence on Middle Eastern oil.

Her campaign was doomed the minute after that video was taken. No way big corporations are going to support her or the Democrats for that matter.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 The U.S. is much more capitalistic than many other countries, and China is using capitalism as a means to make it seem less like a Stalin or Mao type communism. In other words....it's capitalism is being used as a means of control, on it's people and other parts of the world. Scary thing is..China is having so much control over the world market and will surpass the U.S. as a super-power.

So you're saying that capitalism in the US hasn't turned into a form of control?

Also, I don't think you know how China functions on the ground level; that of the common folk. I imagine, with so much space, and the little bubbles of population density, a lot of their way of life isn't so much "communism communism communism" in the same way that US life is "democracy democracy democracy".

It's most likely more traditional; and the way you made your point make it seem (keyword: seem; you might not have meant it so) as if China is putting on a mask and lying in order to achieve a goal. Of course they want to achieve a goal, but they actually ARE loosening up, as the United States does the opposite and tightens up.

And they are going to become the number one super-power, not that it matters, but it isn't their strong efforts alone that made that possible; it's largely our fault for electing Bush twice and allowing the repercussions that followed to continue without reprimand.

peace

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium No way big corporations are going to support her or the Democrats for that matter.

I feel a little more comfortable with that than you seem to.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby So you're saying that capitalism in the US hasn't turned into a form of control?

It has, and that is why I am saying that it would be better if we had a more even handed balance of socialism and capitalism like in Canada and Europe, vs. a mostly capitalist system. That's the problem in this country...something called corporatism. But China is basically using capitalism as a disguise (the Government) to control it's people, no different than they have used communism as a form of control. So they are still communist, but the power they want, they feel they can get from capitalism. America has been capitalist much longer than China has been. Sure it's not the common folk I am talking about, rather their economic and government structure.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 It has, and that is why I am saying that it would be better if we had a more even handed balance of socialism and capitalism like in Canada and Europe, vs. a mostly capitalist system. That's the problem in this country...something called corporatism. But China is basically using capitalism as a disguise (the Government) to control it's people, no different than they have used communism as a form of control. So they are still communist, but the power they want, they feel they can get from capitalism. America has been capitalist much longer than China has been. Sure it's not the common folk I am talking about, rather their economic and government structure.

Well sir... I suppose I agree.

About the balance part.. not about the disguise bit. There's a lot of misinformation about China going on in the west; I'd like to see some various educated opinions from people living in the east.

And don't forget... "controlling the people" is what a government does!

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby And don't forget... "controlling the people" is what a government does!

Yeah, so does religion. I guess I am for government control over various things, like in implemenenting laws, protecting civil liberties, defense, and some economic control. I am not for government control over individuals, nor all corporations. So I guess when Hillary is talking about wanting to control profits, I would say part of me agrees that there should be control to make sure that these companies are using the money they recieved wisely, but also protecting the consumer to make sure they are not being cheated...like when gas companies raise gas prices, or ingage in price gouging. The government should make sure this doesn't happen.

The only reason the government should control a company is if the company is clearly doing un-ethical or law-breaking activities. Usually, this seems to first come from journalists, as they often expose these kinds of things before the government begins investigating. So I wouldn't agree that government should tell corporations what to do, unless of course they are clearly breaking the law and not conducting themselves ethically. In Enron's case, it was clearly unethical and they were breaking the law, so the government was right to step in.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Feb-05-2007 at 01:53