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Originally posted by buitre OK, so at least you agree Israel isn't responsible for Gaza, and has the full right to close the borders with it. That's a progress...

Close borders yes, blockade, NO. Don't equate the two.

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Huh?

What, didn't sink in? Give it time...

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Fine by me. Just tell them to not fire rockets at me.

Tell your government to lift the blockade.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're so against, 'the actions of a state' why aren't you against another state randomly firing thousands of rockets randomly into another? There are others solutions other than using weapons... Here's a radical idea, how about negotiating with your neighbors rather than using this as a platform to fulfill their ultimate goal of the destruction of Israel? Is the dogma of Hamas' charter that thick that they can't understand how to negotiate in this modern age? Sooner or later they're going to have to realize that Israel isn't going anywhere. Hopefully this last smack down operation was enough for Hamas to clue in that if you poke a pitbull too long, soon or later it's going to bite. It's just too bad Hamas has to use women and children as their shields to try and garner World support and sympathy who are the real victims of a twisted Hamas ideology.

So Israel is allowed to defend itself but the Palestinians are not. That's a new concept...

Hamas has and is willing to negotiate. Is your dogma so thick you haven't realized that? FFS...

[[[[[[[[Hamas officials have stated several times that they are willing to stop attacks on Israeli civilian targets if Israel stops attacking Palestinian civilian targets in return. In May 2003, Abdel Aziz Rantisi has said, "The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terror against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians."]]]]]]]]]]]]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...rticle/ShowFull
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4n...art_complex.htm

This operation will do nothing but get Hamas more recruits. I'm disappointed you don't have the foresight to realize this action as completely counter-productive to Israel's goal of peace with its neighbors. It will not bring peace, and it will not make Israel safer. Have fun believing delusions...

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Krypton why dont you take one of them green glowsticks and....































something like that.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

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Originally posted by The17sss No, but until you provide a reason to believe you don't despise Israel or Jews, I see no reason to think otherwise based on your anti-Jew rhetoric that you've been posting for some time.

Wow, what a pathetic attempt to derail this discussion. Please continue your despicable racist personal attacks, and while you'r at it, concede the debate...

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Re-read what I said. IF the IDF finishes the job and roots out Hamas, you can't say their actions were counter-productive, because they will have achieved their objective. I didn't say they have officially finished the job.

The IDF will not root out Hamas. Reread what I wrote! The operation will not make Israel safer and will not bring about peace. Therefore, it's counter-productive.

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So tell me, all knowing middle east expert Krypton, what will bring lasting peace then?

The more you address me personally, the more pathetic your arguments appear...

1. Israel withdraws ALL settlements from internationally recognized Palestinian land.
2. Israel cedes East Jerusalem.
3. All checkpoints and blockades are lifted.
4. Halt to all assassinations, raids, and air strikes.
5. Compensation to Palestinian refugees whose land was stolen.

You know treat people the way you'd want to be treated????

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Because in Hamas' charter, it calls for the outright destruction of Israel. You are sadly naive if you think diplomacy will bring about lasting peace with such a group...

You are sadly naive to think Hamas is an existential threat to Israel. LOL. Hamas marching into Tel Aviv? More delusions.

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and when it doesn't, you'll act shocked just like Jimmy Carter did when Brezhnev ordered an invasion of Afghanistan after Carter met with him a year earlier and Brezhnev said otherwise.... or when Carter had North Korea agree to a nulcer weapons treaty, only to be shocked again when it was broken shorty after.

Irrelevant.

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All of you "diplomacy" Democrats actually believe this works, but you don't understand who you're dealing with. Those people don't think like Americans, and unfortunately it is a necessary evil to use violence. So it would seem lasting peace would require organizations such as Hamas, who call for the total destruction of Israel in their charter to be eliminated.

Diplomacy...diplomacy...hmm...it worked at preventing all-out nuclear holocaust. We'v negotiated with North Korea, North Vietnam, China and dictators of all sorts. And here you are actually claiming we can not do the same with the Palestinians who are more than willing to negotiate. Nothing comes from violence, and nothing ever could. I repeat, this operation will not bring peace, and will not make Israel safer. It will be a total failure.

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What's my point??? That you're a silly little boy who doesn't understand how the real world works.

More pathetic cheap shots. Ready to concede this debate?

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Originally posted by Krypton Close borders yes, blockade, NO. Don't equate the two.

I'm curious: what is blockade, and what is "closing borders"? I mean, what do you think is the difference?

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Originally posted by Krypton What, didn't sink in? Give it time...

Great argument.
Keep it up.

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Originally posted by Krypton Tell your government to lift the blockade.

Will do. Just don't wait for me...brb.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant Krypton why dont you take one of them green glowsticks and....something like that.

You guys seem so adept at personally addressing me. What, have you run out of arguments?

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Originally posted by buitre I'm curious: what is blockade, and what is "closing borders"? I mean, what do you think is the difference?

Closing the border is self explanatory. Do you know what a blockade is? Do I have to explain this to you...

Air, land, and sea denial of commerce...

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Great argument. Keep it up.

You'r the one whose response was "huh". Keep that shit up...

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Will do. Just don't wait for me...brb.

Cute.

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Originally posted by Krypton You guys seem so adept at personally addressing me. What, have you run out of arguments?

It's fun addressing someone whose so naive and ignorant on this issue.

BTW, you quoted Rantissi in one of your responses. Glad the IDF ransacked that ****** and killed him back in 2004 - he was one of Hamas's leading figures.

Well the EU is definitely on Israel's side. The Czech Republic, which currently holds the EU presidency (rotates every 6-12 months) has strongly backed Israel from the begining. Most of the population in Denmark has been siding with Israel. France's leader, Sarkozy, is a great ally of Israel. Now comes word that Italy's ministers are signalling that sometime in the future Israel will be joining the European Union. All the major European players are currently in Jerusalem, ISRAEL'S CAPITAL, even as we speak.
Guess what'll happen to Hamas and Hezbollah if they fire on Israel if it joins the EU? They'll have to deal with all of Europe as well.

It's very simple, really. Your entire argumentation is based on the premise that the violence against Israeli citizens will vanish once all these "demands" you're listing will be met. However, the organization that is repsonsible for these murders is itself saying otherwise, clearly, and has acted accordingly. Perhaps you know more than they do, though. Who knows! It seems you've basically decided to leave all logics behind you and just keep trolling for the heck of it. Enjoy.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

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Originally posted by CHRles Well the EU is definitely on Israel's side. The Czech Republic, which currently holds the EU presidency (rotates every 6-12 months) has strongly backed Israel from the begining. Most of the population in Denmark has been siding with Israel. France's leader, Sarkozy, is a great ally of Israel. Now comes word that Italy's ministers are signalling that sometime in the future Israel will be joining the European Union. All the major European players are currently in Jerusalem, ISRAEL'S CAPITAL, even as we speak. Guess what'll happen to Hamas and Hezbollah if they fire on Israel if it joins the EU? They'll have to deal with all of Europe as well.

No offense, but this is something Israel should rather fear than look forward to

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”