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josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Well if that was the reason that they decided not to vote for it - you know I'm actually okay with that. As stated previously, 95 Dems. said the exact same thing, so obviously something was wrong with this bill.

But for them to come out and use that pansy-ass excuse that they got their feelings hurt by Pelosi's statement is beyond stupid. They actually used this as a primary rationale, and that's what we're complaining about. We all know it's bullshit, just as they do, so why not just come out and say what they felt was wrong with the bill itself rather than cry about what Pelosi said?


Because that would put them at risk for being wrong and weigh heavily when the markets crash. "Well I wanted to vote for it but but Pelosi!!"

Old Post Sep-30-2008 13:31  United States
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
STOP!

JUST STOP!


Stop talking all intellectual. Who cares about LIBOR when your wife's cousin is in LABOR? It's inconsequential and won't affect us anyway.



Sorry, I'm pretty jaded after today. I thought I'd set the bar low to emotionally avoid this...I was wrong. I have a fairly high tolerance for risk given my age.



That said, this stupidity today is seriously endangering the next 30-40 years, AKA, my entire adulthood.



what??? intellectual??? Unlike many people on this board I actually don't use big words in normal chat. I was unaware that 'de-leverage' and LIBOR were intellectual words.

In any rate, what the hell are you talking about? 100K of my 200K of student loans are variable rate based on the 3 month dollar libor. The interest rate resets every quarter. A few % point rate increase can add up quickly in extra interest expense. If the banking system fails I have no idea how high the dollar LIBOR would go. I can't worry about shit like, "johns sister is having a baby." I can only worry about myself.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Sep-30-2008 at 13:41

Old Post Sep-30-2008 13:31  United States
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:

Libor Rises Most on Record After U.S. Congress Rejects Bailout

By Gavin Finch and David Yong

Sept. 30 (Bloomberg) -- The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight rose the most on record after the U.S. Congress rejected a $700 billion bank-rescue plan, putting an unprecedented squeeze on the global financial system.

The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for such loans climbed 431 basis points to an all-time high of 6.88 percent today, the British Bankers' Association said. The euro interbank offered rate, or Euribor, for one-month loans jumped to a record 5.05 percent, the European Banking Federation said. The Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of the scarcity of cash, also increased to an all-time high.

``This is unheard of, the money markets should be the engine driving the financial system but they have broken down,'' said Kornelius Purps, a fixed-income strategist in Munich for UniCredit Markets and Investment Banking, a unit of Italy's largest lender. ``Any institution that hasn't completed its 2008 funding needs by now is going to be in very serious trouble. More banks are going to need to be bailed out.''

The seizure in the credit markets is tipping lenders toward insolvency, forcing U.S. and European governments to rescue five banks in the past two days, including Dexia SA, the world's biggest provider of loans to local governments, and Wachovia Corp. Money-market rates climbed even after the Federal Reserve yesterday more than doubled the size of its dollar-swap line with foreign central banks to $620 billion. In Europe, banks borrowed dollars from the ECB at almost six times the Fed's benchmark interest rate today.

Constraints Exacerbated

The two-month Libor for euros rose to 5.13 percent, also a record. Libor, set by 16 banks including Citigroup Inc. and UBS AG in a daily survey by the BBA, is used to calculate rates on $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, from home loans to credit derivatives.

Funding constraints are being exacerbated as companies try to settle trades and buttress balance sheets over the quarter- end, balking at lending for more than a day.

The Frankfurt-based ECB said it lent banks $30 billion for one day at a marginal rate of 11 percent, 900 basis points above the Fed's key rate of 2 percent. The ECB said it received bids for $77.3 billion. The Bank of Japan injected more than 19 trillion yen ($182 billion) into the country's system over the past two weeks, the most in at least six years. The Reserve Bank of Australia pumped in A$1.95 billion ($1.6 billion) today.

In the year before the turmoil in money markets began in July 2007, the Libor-OIS spread, the difference between the three-month dollar rate and the overnight indexed swap rate, never exceeded 15 basis points. It was a record 250 basis points today.

`Broken Down'

``The money markets have completely broken down, with no trading taking place at all,'' said Christoph Rieger, a fixed- income strategist at Dresdner Kleinwort in Frankfurt. ``There is no market any more. Central banks are the only providers of cash to the market, no-one else is lending.''

Borrowing rates rose in Asia earlier today. The three-month interbank offered dollar rate in Singapore jumped to an eight- month high of 3.90 percent. The three-month rate in Hong Kong rose by the most in almost a week to 3.664 percent. The difference between the rate Australian banks charge each other for three-month loans and the overnight indexed swap rate reached 98 points, close to a six-month high.

Financial institutions have posted almost $590 billion of writedowns and losses tied to U.S. subprime mortgages since the start of last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

`Counterparty Fear'

Dexia got a 6.4 billion-euro ($9.2 billion) state-backed rescue, Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme said today. Yesterday, the U.K. Treasury seized Bradford & Bingley Plc, Britain's biggest lender to landlords, while governments in Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg extended a lifeline to Fortis, Belgium's largest financial-services firm. Elsewhere, Hypo Real Estate Holding AG received a loan guarantee from Germany, and Iceland agreed to rescue Glitnir Bank hf.

``Counterparty fear in the banking sector is at a new extreme,'' said Greg Gibbs, director of currency strategy at ABN Amro Holding Bank NV in Sydney. ``Credit conditions are as tight as a drum. Unless this settles down, central banks would need to cut rates globally to bring funding costs down.''

Congress's rejection of the U.S. government's bank-rescue plan yesterday prompted traders to fully price in a cut in the Fed's target rate of at least a quarter point next month, futures on the Chicago Board of Trade showed. The odds were zero percent a month ago.

TED Spread

The difference between what banks and the U.S. Treasury pay to borrow money for three months, the so-called TED spread, was at 352 basis points today after breaching 350 basis points for the first time yesterday. The spread was at 110 basis points a month ago.

``We can be sure that funding pressures are not going to ease while there is so much uncertainty,'' said Adam Carr, senior economist in Sydney at ICAP Australia Ltd., part of the world's largest inter-bank broker. ``Cash is going to be at a premium. There's really no end in sight.''

To contact the reporters on this story: Gavin Finch in London at [email protected][/email]; David Yong in Singapore at [email][email protected]

Last Updated: September 30, 2008 09:21 EDT


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...tQEE&refer=home

did you see how close to a 500 basis point increase that is?

Old Post Sep-30-2008 13:43  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Well if that was the reason that they decided not to vote for it - you know I'm actually okay with that. As stated previously, 95 Dems. said the exact same thing, so obviously something was wrong with this bill.

But for them to come out and use that pansy-ass excuse that they got their feelings hurt by Pelosi's statement is beyond stupid. They actually used this as a primary rationale, and that's what we're complaining about. We all know it's bullshit, just as they do, so why not just come out and say what they felt was wrong with the bill itself rather than cry about what Pelosi said?



The problem with the bill is that it was poorly sold to the public. Voting in members were likely responding to their constituents on main street who simply don't understand the gravity of the situation. It is unacceptable that both sides failed to put aside party differences despite all of their kumbayas last week saying that they would, and that they would get something done. I bet they will get it done by the end of this week given the backlash they're hearing today.

I can't even believe the amount of partisan finger-pointing going on in this very thread. It was a failure on both sides of the aisle. Congress failed. Pelosi did something horrible. Republicans did something equally horrible, by responding with the same level of partisanship to her ill-timed, completely unnecessary speech. She could not rally her party and Paulson/Bernanke/Bush apparently couldn't impress upon the GOP how important it was to get this done ASAP. It does not help that this bill has come to the floor and demanded passing with such urgency and haste, but that is how fast these problems are evolving and rippling through the financial system. The fact that the market is bouncing today won't help, but hopefully the message is getting through.

This is NOT about failed Bush economic policies. Please stop with the bs. If you think it is, then you don't fully grasp what is going on. This is about a financial system that is depended on by all of us, GOP, Dem, Independent, Godless commie, etc. Quit the fucking finger-pointing and get your head out of your ass. We all have a stake in this.

Old Post Sep-30-2008 13:48  United States
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy.


as has been pointed out before, the constitutuents are clueless in understanding the financial system. Clearly, most people have difficulties balancing their checkbook let along understanding the inner workings of credit markets. There possibly hasn't been a better time to do something politically unpopular than to vote yes on the bailout.


quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.


that's because 90 democrats are just as stupid as the 200+ republicans. This shouldn't be a democrat v republican issue. In 8 years of bush i haven't agreed on many things, but this is something we both agree on. Looks like his Harvard MBA finally went to use.

Old Post Sep-30-2008 14:32  United States
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LazFX
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2004
Location: 9th Circle

quote:
Originally posted by occrider


I moved half of my investments into funds that invested in treasuries half a year ago. I just moved the rest earlier this week.


+1

Did the same....

Old Post Sep-30-2008 14:43  United States
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LazFX
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2004
Location: 9th Circle

OMG here we go again!!



John McCain made the morning show rounds today. On Fox they were virtually begging him to "suspend" his campaign again in the wake of the bailout failure yesterday on the Hill. You know, since it worked out so well the first time. McCain's answer: He just might suspend again.

did he even do anything the first time and once again he is going to use this bail out as a fucking excuse so his little dinosaur walked with man bitch can get out the debate....

fucking GOP

Old Post Sep-30-2008 14:53  United States
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Nostalgic
.



Registered: Apr 2005
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Because the Democrats should have narrowly passed this bill that wasn't supported by an uneducated public (and from listening to last week's hearings, an uneducated Congress)? They should have taken the full brunt of the public backlash for a vote that will help them, but not noticeably in 30 days?

You and your ignorant House GOP and the constituents that they represent can really suck my dick. But congrats, you sure showed Nancy and her libtard supporters.


LOUDMOUTH LIBERAL SNOB GOING WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Old Post Sep-30-2008 15:04  United States
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CGRumler
Master of the Hadouken



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Indiana

quote:
Originally posted by LazFX
OMG here we go again!!



John McCain made the morning show rounds today. On Fox they were virtually begging him to "suspend" his campaign again in the wake of the bailout failure yesterday on the Hill. You know, since it worked out so well the first time. McCain's answer: He just might suspend again.

did he even do anything the first time and once again he is going to use this bail out as a fucking excuse so his little dinosaur walked with man bitch can get out the debate....

fucking GOP


McCain sure does blink a lot.......



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Old Post Sep-30-2008 15:28  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy.

there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.



Those 90 democrats didn't vote for it because it was watered down to appeal to conservative Republicans. They made the effort to pass a bipartisan bill rather than a strictly party-line liberal one.


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Old Post Sep-30-2008 15:33  United Nations
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

I saw something that pointed out that many of those who voted against it predominately were in tight election positions and that their constituents were adamantly against it. This just illustrates how poorly the plan was sold to the general public.

Old Post Sep-30-2008 15:38  United States
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DrUg_Tit0
e^(i*pi)+1=0



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
I saw something that pointed out that many of those who voted against it predominately were in tight election positions and that their constituents were adamantly against it. This just illustrates how poorly the plan was sold to the general public.


Sometimes it's fascinating how the most important decisions get the least amount of PR. And then everyone wonders where things went wrong and why aren't people supporting them. It kinda reminds me of the EU constitution vote...


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Old Post Sep-30-2008 16:27  Croatia
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Ok so the bailout was rejected, or whatever
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