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the one and only Matrix Reloaded plot discussion thread (pg. 5)
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| MaRt |
| quote: | Originally posted by whitesmoke
i thought the screens in the architects were the neos from before during the same conversation. that is why you saw him have the same reactions that he wanted to have at this point. then again, the architect could have changed the look of them. who knows....i dont. |
This isn't strictly related, but cast your minds back to The Matrix and the interrogation scene - that's the bit where the agents bug Neo. That scene begins with an array of screens similar, if not identical, to those in the Architect's room at the end of Reloaded. Cool eh? Well no, but have any of the more vigilant of you spotted other things like this? |
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| LordTranceaLaut |
| i think it wud help u guys a lot if u read this ling ass post i made under the other mmatrix thread... |
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| Philby |
| you might also ask why is there a need for the matrix in the first place? humans build machines, they fight and humans win, the machines make their own cities and fight back and then win. they enslave the humans, but why do they need to make the matrix anyway? what is it for? |
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| ampburner |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
someone mentioned that merovingian is a former One (because of what Percephone said to Neo - "he was once just like you") |
hmmm, there's a problem though.
alledgedly, the merovingian is a de(a)mon
| quote: | daemon
/day'mn/ or /dee'mn/ (From the mythological
meaning, later rationalised as the acronym "Disk And Execution
MONitor") A program that is not invoked explicitly, but lies
dormant waiting for some condition(s) to occur. The idea is
that the perpetrator of the condition need not be aware that a
daemon is lurking (though often a program will commit an
action only because it knows that it will implicitly invoke a
daemon). |
whose task is to clean up after bugs/glitches in the matrix. hence the werewolves, vampires and crap.
if he is indeed a former ONE, that means either....
- the merovingian was a human and was transformed into a computer program (daemon)... which does not sound very plausible. ... OR
- he's not actually a computer program, he is still a human, but working for the machines. (hmmm).... OR
- the merovingian as we know him is a computer simulation of a human being (be he dead or just dissappeared) who used to be the one ...OR
- he hasn't been converted into a program at all...he has always (when he was a 'one') BEEN a program. this implies that neo is a machine/program aswell
can't say I find any of those very convincing.. |
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| whiskers |
| quote: | Originally posted by ampburner
[*]he hasn't been converted into a program at all...he has always (when he was a 'one') BEEN a program. this implies that neo is a machine/program aswell
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that's what i was thinking - it'd be really cool if neo actually turned out to be a program that rebelled against the machines and joined the human side and didn't know it itself for some reason
Philby, the matrix is needed so that humans stay alive and provide the machines with electricity. the matrix is a prison to keep the humans in one place and under control.
so what happened to nuclear power? |
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| FrosT |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
i see, that's what i missed. people who reject the matrix die. that explains everything.
here's another one. neo. is he really the One? is he really special, or is he made special by the fact that he had to choose between the doors (wait, i just realized something... maybe he IS SPECIAL because of the choices he makes, such as saving morpheus in part 1 and picking doors in part 2... thus the whole choice theme)
and, did the previous 5 Ones look like Neo, or were they actually different people? someone mentioned that merovingian is a former One (because of what Percephone said to Neo - "he was once just like you") |
He is the one but the choices he made had nothing to do with it. (as the oracle says you already made the choice) What makes him speacial is the code that governs his life in the matrix.
Architect : "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inhenent to the programming of the matrix."
Also I doubt that they looked like him, but it is possable. It would seem like the anomaly would be kind of a random thing therefore conecting itself to a random person, or whoever was next after the eqation worked out to the anomally.
The screens seem to be reading all the possable human reactions he could have. (bunch of different answeres but all esentially the same/predictable.) By the end of the conversation all the responses were the same showing that the machines know exactly how to manipulate him into doing what they want. |
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| FrosT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Philby
you might also ask why is there a need for the matrix in the first place? humans build machines, they fight and humans win, the machines make their own cities and fight back and then win. they enslave the humans, but why do they need to make the matrix anyway? what is it for? |
They need it for the power. Having a bunch of lifeless humans connected to a machine would do nothing for power. The mind needs to be doing something to tell the body to produce all this energy. By running around in the matrix (the mind makes it real) the body in the real world is producing electricity. |
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| ampburner |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
so what happened to nuclear power? |
from that point of view there is absolutely no reason to keep humans around merely for electricity, nuclear power is much more efficient, and since it is the distant future, they may have even developed nuclear fusion reactors...
**speculation/possible bull alert!**
only thing I can come up with is that the machines can't destroy humanity because (I'm making this up right here) at some deep level they are programmed to serve humanity (they were originally programmed to serve humanity back when AI was still under human control.)
In other words, the machines need the humans to give them (the machines).... *drumroll*... purpose! (yup, there it is again, purpose) I admit it's a dillemma though, on one hand they need to sustain humanity, and on the other hand they need to control it.
just a thought |
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| occrider |
| Somebody mentioned it before, but at the end of the animatrix it was hinted at that some kind of deal was signed. |
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| whiskers |
| quote: | Originally posted by ampburner
**speculation/possible bull alert!**
only thing I can come up with is that the machines can't destroy humanity because (I'm making this up right here) at some deep level they are programmed to serve humanity (they were originally programmed to serve humanity back when AI was still under human control.)
In other words, the machines need the humans to give them (the machines).... *drumroll*... purpose! (yup, there it is again, purpose) I admit it's a dillemma though, on one hand they need to sustain humanity, and on the other hand they need to control it.
just a thought |
actually, you just hit the nail on the head. i've read this somewhere - the machines can't kill the humans because they don't have the ability to choose or something like that.
basically, their purpose it to keep humans alive.
anyway, what if you look at this from the machines' persective of view? they probably have their own classes and maybe even 'races' and stuff like laws, etc... it's not like one single machine can decide to destroy all the humans, that'd be like one human being trying to destroy all the machinery in the world.
i think percephone might play a major role in the revolutions (she might be the mother of the matrix, remember?) |
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| Thomas Datt |
wao! i just got back from seeing the movie, finally may i add.. ive been trying to see it with my girlfriend for a long time now but because her dumbass friends told her the movie sucked ass she refused to go with me.... so unfortunately i was forced to see it alone
i guess stupid people will always say the movie sucks since they didnt understand anything that was going in it except the easy on the brain action sequences. anyhow i have to say i loved this more than the original well maybe on equal parts. There were times where the phylosophy confused teh crap out of me but Im glad i came to this thread. I would have had questions to ask and make up theories myself but since i read what was posted before, theres really nothing i can add to it.
But Im def going to see this movie again before it drops out of the big screen, wether i have to go alone or not :whip: |
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| b i n k u n |
| quote: | Originally posted by ampburner
exactly, another reason why I don't think she is the mother.
I think that leaves two possibilities: 1. Persephone, and 2. Trinity.
I'd never even considered persephone until I read the posts above, and now that I think of it, it would make sense. She is a program for sure (though you can never be sure ;) ) and of all the 'programs' in the film she has the most affinity to human emotions (craving for a touch, a kiss, ETC ;) ) which could be explained by her being a program designed to investigate human nature.
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Damn some interesting reading here. i dun have any replies except for this that might shed some light on the persephone as the mother aspect.
Persephone in Greek Mythology is the daughter of the Goddess of Earth (i can't remember the name right now). She was captured by Hades (God of the Underworld) to be his bride. Upon learning of the capture, Persephone's mother goes into depression and the Earth begins to die. Zeus then orders Hades to release Persephone to save Earth. However, Persephone has already consumed food from the Underworld in which she is then bound to stay forever. Through a compromise, Hades agrees to let Persephone return to Earth every 6 months, hence the summer/winter seasons that we have. That's the short condensed version.
Anyway, when I heard her introduced as Persephone, I'm sure the Wachowski Brothers had some reason for her name, which was reinforced when she became the turncoat and helped Neo. Hearing you guys talk about her in Revolutions, I just thought I might share this little piece of Greek Mythology for it is probably the reason why she is more in tune with human emotions. |
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