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Palestine (pg. 2)
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
There are two sets of settlements ... illegal ones and government sponsored ones on Palestinian territories. Right now the government does nothing to halt the spread of illegal settlements. Under the proposed peace plan, all illegal settlements are to be removed immediately. With the legal settlements the government has reservations about removing those but has accepted the peace proposal based upon the US's agreement to address some of the reservations that Israel has. However, the US has refused to change any of the points of the peace plan so far.
At any rate, Israel should remove both types of settlements from Palestinian territories. I mean ... it will be THEIR country right? |
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was actually hoping to get a reponse from you specifically because of your less bias views than SOME people who shall remain anonymous......... |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was actually hoping to get a reponse from you specifically because of your less bias views than SOME people who shall remain anonymous......... |
Despite my semi-pro Isreali views the ball is still in Israel's court. Arafat made concessions to limit his power, Sharon MUST make good on his promise to remove illegal settlements, halt all expansion of current settlements, and eventually even remove those.
Even if Israel promises to do all of this, the big if factor is what's going to happen when terrorists strike again? Will Israel percieve this as a failure of the PLO's acceptance of the peace plan in their efforts to curb terrorism? That's why I've adopted the mentality that the terrorist groups must be eliminated or consolidated under the PLO in order for any chance of peace being achieved (this is all assuming that Sharon doesn't revert to being a d*ckhead and genuinely wants peace). |
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| melech_mike |
I love how it's always 'Sharon' that we concentrate our efforts on.:rolleyes:
We have yet to see Abu Mazen do anything. Why isn't everyone weary about this supposedly 'new guy’? He has yet to prove himself to be that, 'peace desiring; peace loving man', people make him out to be.
The PLO has yet to produce any genuine diplomat in all its existence.
Let's have a look onto what we know about Abu Mazen:
In describing Abu Mazen's credentials for a crackdown on terror, Associated Press has in the past echoed the major media in declaring that he is "an outspoken critic of attacks on Israelis by Palestinian militants."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...srael_explosion
One gets the sense the new leader emerged from a dovish, non-violent Palestinian camp. Indeed, in a celebrated November 2002 speech, Abu Mazen earned the title of moderate by stating: "We cannot reach our goal through the use of force." He later, however, carefully qualified his statement, advocating ongoing violence against Israelis living over the Green Line and clarifying that "we didn't say we would stop the armed struggle. We said that the militarization of the Intifada should stop... there is no option but to stop it for a year and it won't be perceived as caving in on our side."
http://www.themedialine.org/news/ne...asp?NewsID=1550
These unequivocally hostile Abu Mazen statements were until recently posted on the IDF's official web site to illustrate terror support from the Palestinian leadership. As noted by Haaretz, they were removed from the site just a short while ago, in an apparent effort to grant Abu Mazen legitimacy during his rise to power.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...l?itemNo=272308
The New York Times reports that Israeli officials have gathered what they call extreme statements made by Abu Mazen over the years, but have held the material in reserve while they judge his performance.
The IDF seemingly agrees with Washington that Abu Mazen is the best of many bad options to replace Arafat in the Palestinian leadership. But for the record, here's some background:
- In 1964, Abu Mazen was one of the original founders of the PLO/Fatah (itself the father of modern terrorism), and is presently head of the PLO's executive committee.
- Abu Mazen supports the Palestinian right of refugee return, a key reason for the failure of the Oslo Accords which he himself negotiated.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?P...a=sr&ID=SR00501
- Important Jewish groups, including the American Jewish Committee, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, and the Zionist Organization of America, have criticized Abu Mazen for his Holocaust-denying 1983 book, "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship between Nazism and the Zionist Movement." (see HonestReporting critique at:
http://www.honestreporting.com/arti...me_Minister.asp)
- Abbas is widely perceived by Palestinians as corrupt, illustrated by his construction of a lavish $1.5 million villa in a poverty-stricken area of Gaza.
- Finally, we recall that Abu Mazen was never elected to public office, but rather appointed directly by Arafat. This was clearly not what President Bush had in mind when declaring last June: "I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practicing democracy."
Do we not at all worry that this peace plan will fail at the hands of Abu Mazen? There is more to whether or not this document will be successfully achieved than just the actions of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the State of Israel! |
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| torontotrance |
Why must you always blame the palestianians?
it's not only their fault, isreal is to blame and so is palestine. The hate goes so deep (I can see your hate by your comments) and this hate needs to be put aside for a peace agreement. You can blame whoever you want but this only achieves nothing, ppl need to realize hell we need a peace agreement because innocent ppl are dying ON BOTH SIDES! and it's wrong!.
As far as I'm concerned you can blame arafat all you wish but then again it takes 2 sides to fight and 2 sides to achieve peace. So continue blaming arafat, sadly it's the poor attitude that has led to the deaths of many innocent lives. When you continue to blame the other side over and over and over again, you achieve nothing. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| ^^^^ You think Sharon is a real diplomat? I say HA! to you! |
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| torontotrance |
who said either was a true diplomat
the bottom line is peace needs to be achieved because so many ppl are dying for no reason. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by melech_mike
I love how it's always 'Sharon' that we concentrate our efforts on.:rolleyes:
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Well we are merely concentrating our efforts on Sharon at this time because the Palestinians have upheld their end of the bargain to create a PM position that would establish a cabinet independant of Arafat. Now it is up to the Israelis to uphold their end of the bargain. Actually both sides are supposed to carry out their concessions in parallel. So if Israel begins settlement disbandment and more terrorist attacks are carried out against Israel than I'll shift my attention and critisisms towards the Palestininans.
| quote: |
Do we not at all worry that this peace plan will fail at the hands of Abu Mazen? There is more to whether or not this document will be successfully achieved than just the actions of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the State of Israel! |
agreed. |
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| torontotrance |
| let's hope they both do what they are supposed to do and peace is achieved. I got friends in both parts..isreal and palestine and I would love them to have peace. |
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| ChavezHype |
As known in Spain from Basque issues... the process is ongoing. There will be a Palestinian state, eventually. However it will not satisfy anyone and now we're back to square one again.
Will there be peace? It depends on how low the level of satisfaction is. The very same hatred will come from both sides. IF Israel does get rid of its settlements in the occupied lands (all of them hopefully). Gives all the west bank and gaza. Then they have done their part, simple. If from there on in terrorism is still strong against Israel, then the rest of the world will eventually find out that the problem never really was that Israel took the land away, it was that Palestinians never accepted a Jewish state in lands which were owned by the british in the first place. All leaders are corrupt, politics is trash. If it weren't for politics, then it would be so much easier to get along... simply knowing each other. We're all really the same. No one really wants to talk, its all bs. Sharon and Abbas. And especially Arafat because, after all, all of the west bank and gaza were offered to him at the Oslo accord, yet he would not accept it. It's too bad Palestine never had a Yitzak Rabin at the time. |
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| Shakka |
| How about just blowing up the entire region and creating a "peace" resort. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| ^^ Which region would that be? Spain or the Middle East? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
^^ Which region would that be? Spain or the Middle East? |
Spain probably has better beaches for a "peace" resort :) |
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