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Advice needed - Harmonic Mixing
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| The Orange Man |
Not sure If this is the correct place to ask this. So, many appologies if this is in the wrong place or has been covered already.
I have been mixing for quite a few years now and my beat matching is pretty much perfect.
I would aslo consider myself to have a realatively good ear for determining which tunes work together nicely.
I understand that one way to obtain different effects when mixing is to programme tracks in a particualr order with keys and key changes that compliment the outgoing tracks.
In order for me to get a better understanding of the theory behind why some of my tracks work well and why some dont I would like to work out what keys the melodys and bass lines are in my tracks.
I know I could work out what key it is in by using a keybord over the top.
My question:
Is there any piece of software that can analyse either a .wav, .mp3 or the audio itself to determine what key it is in.
I have seen the service offered by Camalot sounds that lists the particular BPM and Key of thousands of tracks. However the type of music I play is often Promos and quite obscure tracks so this would be of little use to me.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Luke |
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| Dj Flesch |
| As far as I know, there is not cheap (meaning under $500) piece of software that will tell you that. My advise is that you look around Amazon.com etc for a book on sound or music theory. Make sure that you don't get some really advanced book, just start off with the basics, which includes harmonics. |
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| The Orange Man |
My theory isn't terrible I know a little back from my guitar lesson days.
If you know of any software or hardware that can do this please tell.
Price is irrelevent.
Thank you,
Luke |
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| DJ Nuclear |
Get a korg tuner ($20), and hum the first note of the bassline or melody to get the key (this is it for 98% of tracks). You can also try putting it next to your subwoofer, but this doesn't work as much.
Of course, depending on how the record is pitched, the original key may not matter. The only surefire way to find records in tune is to practice mixing with them. When you pitch a record 5% up, it's gonna be a quartertone off, so even if you mix it in with a record of the same pitch, it'll sound bad.
And the key isn't necesarily as important as the scale too in some places (which you really can only hear).
If you're spinning live, just test out the record before hand to see if it's in key. If not, swap it with something else. I see a lot of DJ's do this. |
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| mongeone |
| does the harmonics of tracks affect weather the bass of two tracks phase/flange each other? im having trouble transitioning the bass of tracks without any noticible phasing. |
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| The Orange Man |
Thaks very much for the advice.
Would I be correct in thinking then;
If I was to pitch all of my tracks up or down to say, for example, 140 BPM then work out which keys the music is closest to. I would be able to find tracks that would work harmonically well together.
Say i had a track that was structured around the key of C Major at 140BPM If I was to bring a new record in I could get different changes in mood if I were to say change to the relative minor key (A minor in this case) when overlaying a new melody or bassline?
I do understand that with enough practice with the same reords I will get a good natural feel for what can and cant be put together.
Im a theory man and I like to think about these thingsl.
Luke |
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| DJ Nuclear |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Orange Man
Thaks very much for the advice.
Would I be correct in thinking then;
If I was to pitch all of my tracks up or down to say, for example, 140 BPM then work out which keys the music is closest to. I would be able to find tracks that would work harmonically well together.
Say i had a track that was structured around the key of C Major at 140BPM If I was to bring a new record in I could get different changes in mood if I were to say change to the relative minor key (A minor in this case) when overlaying a new melody or bassline?
I do understand that with enough practice with the same reords I will get a good natural feel for what can and cant be put together.
Im a theory man and I like to think about these thingsl.
Luke |
This is good in theory (C major to A minor) but....
Shift it off a few cents due to pitch changes (one record is 140 bpm and the other say 136) and it sounds not so nice.
Listen to the attached file. First part is with Am coming into CM, and the second is the same thing, with the Am part a 40 cents or so astray. Doesn't sound too pretty.
sample
So, technically, you could do harmonic mixing by key, but the records need to be really close in bpm (within 1.5% to 2% at most...) or you'll run into that effect. You could calculate what it'd be closest to as well, but 20+ cents and it starts to sound off. This isn't really useful live though because you'd be changing the pitch to match the pitch of something that maybe already be 3% off, or whatever (you could kinda guess what's it's closest to, I suppose, but you still run a large chance of it being too far off and getting it wrong).
Another thing to watch out for is stuff like accidentals and scales. Although by key it may be okay, some notes may clash badly between the two songs.
Also: Flanging? Could you maybe give us a sample? I'm not sure what you mean. |
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| escee |
| great thread guys :) |
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| Project T |
there is no cheap hardware to do this, its just knowing your tunes really, musical knowledge is a bonus. for example, gibbo knows e all about music theory and will openly admit it but he knows his tunes so just about all of his mixes are harmonically spot on. also you don't wanna just fuss about the key of a track, you want to think of the original bassline note, because they are the ones that are gonna come together, for example most corsten tunes start on G or A basslines, so they work well together, and it would sound putting a C bassline tune over them if you get what i mean. mind im probably wrong, but i hope u get the idea heh.
all in all, just do what sounds good and use LOTS of eq :)
Luke :cool: |
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| Camelot_Sound |
| Good news guys: The latest version of Mixmeister (MM5) mixing software now includes a key detection utility. Download a FREE trial version from mixmeister.com. Although it has its limitations, you can't beat the price! |
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| Sinonick |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Nuclear
This is good in theory (C major to A minor) but....
Shift it off a few cents due to pitch changes (one record is 140 bpm and the other say 136) and it sounds not so nice.
Listen to the attached file. First part is with Am coming into CM, and the second is the same thing, with the Am part a 40 cents or so astray. Doesn't sound too pretty.
sample
So, technically, you could do harmonic mixing by key, but the records need to be really close in bpm (within 1.5% to 2% at most...) or you'll run into that effect. You could calculate what it'd be closest to as well, but 20+ cents and it starts to sound off. This isn't really useful live though because you'd be changing the pitch to match the pitch of something that maybe already be 3% off, or whatever (you could kinda guess what's it's closest to, I suppose, but you still run a large chance of it being too far off and getting it wrong).
Another thing to watch out for is stuff like accidentals and scales. Although by key it may be okay, some notes may clash badly between the two songs.
Also: Flanging? Could you maybe give us a sample? I'm not sure what you mean. |
"phase/flange effect"
i think it's the effect that happens when two sounds in two different tracks cancel each other
example: i'm sure it has happenned to every single one of us...
while mixing the kickdrums of the two tracks sound so low volume, (just like their bass is cutoff) and might skip out for a sec and sound soooooo boomy (like their bass is all the way up)
and it goes like this all the time. (i hate it when it happens)
the bad thing about this is that you 're not able to know what is going to happen while beatmatching...(you can't predict if the two track will phase each other's kickdrums or not)
try this: put two copies of the same record and start them spinning at the same time, same pitch.
then you'll hear this "flange-phase" effect going on. you'll notice that skipping out one of the tracks a little off, it will change the "wide" parameter of the effect.
effect machines do exactly the same thing, only they can use more than one copy of the sound sample & change the pitch of several of them too.
i hope that is the effect you're talking about, it happens many times with other tracks |
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| Xavier |
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