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Religous extremists in America? (pg. 2)
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| Palestinian |
Christian Fundamentalism in America is strong and vocal. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are amongst them. Anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-condoms, and I'm not sure but I think pro death penalty.
What makes them fundamentalists isn't really their opinion on these matters but their involvement in the government to implement these as laws. They fight for bringing back the ten commandments etc in public institutions. Not everything they do I would label fundamentalism myself but what is truly extreme about them is their views on foreign policy. When their religious views interfere with their political views, it gets dangerous. For example, when Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, that was taken as a pretty fundamental statement, perhaps equivalent to Bin Laden's "war on America is God's will".
They are also anti-Muslim. When Falwell called Mohammed a terrorist, that angered many people. And they are also Christian Zionists and anti-Palestinian state. They believe that unconditional support for Israel will hasten the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and therefore the return of Jesus (and they don't actually give a damn about the Jews since they believe once Jesus returns, all Jews will convert to Christianity) And there are various groups with different names. I learned about them in one of my political science courses.
I hope this helps. |
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| anuneventrade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
Christian Fundamentalism in America is strong and vocal. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are amongst them. Anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-condoms, and I'm not sure but I think pro death penalty.
What makes them fundamentalists isn't really their opinion on these matters but their involvement in the government to implement these as laws. They fight for bringing back the ten commandments etc in public institutions. Not everything they do I would label fundamentalism myself but what is truly extreme about them is their views on foreign policy. When their religious views interfere with their political views, it gets dangerous. For example, when Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, that was taken as a pretty fundamental statement, perhaps equivalent to Bin Laden's "war on America is God's will".
They are also anti-Muslim. When Falwell called Mohammed a terrorist, that angered many people. And they are also Christian Zionists and anti-Palestinian state. They believe that unconditional support for Israel will hasten the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and therefore the return of Jesus (and they don't actually give a damn about the Jews since they believe once Jesus returns, all Jews will convert to Christianity) And there are various groups with different names. I learned about them in one of my political science courses.
I hope this helps. |
Bush’s commented to Recep Tayyip Erdogan who leads Turkey and is a devout Muslim “You believe in the Almighty, and I believe in the Almighty. That’s while we’ll be great partners”. |
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| DigiNut |
I think we've all been missing out on the obvious irony that the thread starter appears to *be* one of these extremists... :p
Jews for Jesus pisses me off. I abandoned my faith and religion for a reason, and that reason was not to pick up a different one that's even stupider than the one I was brought up with. Yeeeah, let's all help them be better Jews by teaching them Christianity! :rolleyes: |
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| Palestinian |
| and Louis I agree with you that American media promotes immoral behaviour. There is money to make out of it. Christian fundamentalists in America are more concerned with political and material topics than true Christian values. They would rather teach you to denounce homosexuality than to love your neighbour. To hate Palestinians rather than to fight pornography (which they do on a smaller scale). To be anti-Muslim rather than to love them and teach those who are willing to learn about your faith. These are the reasons that make them fundamentalists. |
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| dj adagnitio |
| quote: | Originally posted by LouisLaBelle
http://www.cc.org/mission.cfm
Can some Americans tell me what the religous sitution in America is like. Because in Canada all I hear from our leftist goverment is that Americans are all Christian fundamentalists, I never beleive it though because the American media promotes paganism and inmoral behavoir. I can across that website witch looks a bit concerning, I have never been to America is it really like that? |
Honestly I really don't know where to start.
First of all our government here in Canada is only left by a very far stretch of the imagination, or by a very unreasonable comparison.
Secondly can you please provide some kind of a basis, besides a few off hand remarks, that our government claims that all Americans are Christian Fundamentalists.
Thirdly if you want to make claims such as that the American media promotes Paganism, you need to back it up in some way.
Also as a clarification beign Pagan means that you are not Christian, Jewish or Muslim and/or that you worship a polytheistic religion. It can also mean you have no religion. |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by imokruok
Most other nations confuse our strength of religion with fundamentalism. As Western nations go, the United States has the highest percentage of people who regularly attend church by far. If you're from France, and you attend church only a handful times a year, when you hear that you average American actually does attend church each weekend, yeah...it looks like we're fundamentalists.
Just think about 35 years ago, as our astronauts on Apollo 8 circled the moon on Christmas Eve and read from the book of Genesis. No one would ever think of pulling that now, yet it was probably one of the most powerful moments in modern history. |
Actually, I would hasten to say that it's got more to do with the strong US 'Creation Science' movement (Now there's an oxymoron If I've ever heard one), the ten commandments on courthouses issue, the "under god" in the pledge, the "God bless America" phrase, and the repeated frequency with which conservatives like to announce that America 'is and always has been a Christian nation'. Never mind that a fair few of your founding fathers were in fact deists who despised Christian dogma. Your president also mentions god with astonishing regularity. There are also regular reports of Creationists demanding 'equal time' in schools for their so called scientific theory. I also seem to remember some prominent TV personalities blaming feminists and atheists for the September 11 attacks.
That kind of thing is (thankfully) unheard of to me, my country is far more secular the US, and in my opinion is all the better for it. I would be hard pressed to name the religious convictions of more than two politicians in this country, and that includes both present and past parliamentarians.
As for the genesis point, it certainly would have been one of the most cringe-worthy, but it defiantly was not one of the most powerful moments in modern history. The "one small step for man" comment was indeed powerful, as (no doubt) were the comments that the first men in space (IE - Russian cosmonauts) made when they first saw the earth from up above.
In short, the view that an 'outsider' such as me gets of the US is indeed one of a fairly fundamentalist religious heartland with a lot of wackos residing there. That isn't to say that I think the all (or even the majority of) Americans are wackos, but it's apparent that you do have a fairly active (and large) fundamentalist element.
| quote: | Originally posted by LouisLaBelle
Why are you getting agry buddy it's just a chatroom? |
Because you're behaving like a stereotypical right wing religious fundamentalist.
What's wrong with being a pagan anyhow? Dictionary.com defines it as:
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
In that case, I myself am a pagan. Thanks for the compliment. :p |
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| George Smiley |
The impression in the UK is that America is a very religious country. We did a table in my uni course catagorising countries by their 'religious intensity' and America came well up there with some Middle East countries!
I would certainly say that evangelical christians are fundamentalists! I swear to God (er...) they are ing psychos!! And apparently, there are between 70 to 100 million in the United States! (Source for Diginut ;) )
I think America is full of religious nutters for a few reasons. One of those reasons that I saw quite recently was during the Iraq war. For a start, all that e Bush was coming out with about missions for God etc etc! But what caugh my eye more that owt else was the prayer sessions of the soldiers. I swear they must have been attended by everyone! Hundreds of soldiers all gathered round stages sing prayers! Then on the next article on the news, 'British soldiers say prayers for Easter' and I thought, 'oh well, there goes that little theory'!! But when the story came on there were literally 7 of them sayin prayers! So I was saved!
Some scholar (forget who) claimed the UK is the most unreligious country in the world after North Korea (where I think religion is banned!) and that suits me fine! We get naked ladies on p3 of our national newspapers and nobody important complains! Yay! 45% of Americans attend church every week, while that figure in the UK is 2%! So, I am obviously comparing my country and the attitudes in it (I know one, 1, person who is religious!) to America and I definately get the impression America is as religious as various Muslim countries (who are accused of religious fundamentalism all the time by Americans)
Is it just me or did I go overboard with the "!"s? |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Some scholar (forget who) claimed the UK is the most unreligious country in the world after North Korea (where I think religion is banned!) and that suits me fine! |
Australia would have to be up there as well, mention religion (I only mention it when trying to 'convert' someone to atheism :p), and you're likley to get the classsic "what the " look. People just honestly don't care. |
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| occrider |
The US is most certainly less secular than most other countries in the world, particularly wealthy nations.
Source
That being said, I would hesistate to slap on the "fundamentalist" label onto America as a whole. Although many are religious, the majority are primarily catholics who are arguably less wacky as the other, more devout groups such as the baptists, etc.
http://www.teachingaboutreligion.or...emographics.htm
I think many acquire a misconception of the US being a fundamentalist religious state based upon:
A) Some wierdo states who make the news like Georgia or Texas for their archaic religious laws and when people see this they typify the other 50 states as being the same way.
B) Fundies never stop at a chance to infringe on the constitutional protection of church and state which always make the news (and typically always goes the way of reaffirming seperation) and once again people are left with the misconception that there is this huge religious "problem".
I think the US laws keeping religion outside of government are fairly well-established and even better than most other countries who are more secular (perhaps they have less of a need for such clearly defined laws). Correct me if I am wrong, but does the UK not have two established state churches? The Church of England (Anglican) and the Church of Scotland (Presbytrian)? Additionally, doesn't the government fund a number of "faith" schools? And doesn't the Education Reform Act of 1988 require that religious education form part of the core curriculum for students in England and Wales whereby the shape and content of religious instruction is decided on a local basis? Now you can critisize the state of Georgia wanting to teach creationism alongside evolution, but I can't help but think this is something along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
I think many acquire a misconception of the US being a fundamentalist religious state based upon:
A) Some wierdo states who make the news like Georgia or Texas for their archaic religious laws and when people see this they typify the other 50 states as being the same way.
B) Fundies never stop at a chance to infringe on the constitutional protection of church and state which always make the news (and typically always goes the way of reaffirming seperation) and once again people are left with the misconception that there is this huge religious "problem". |
Well, it's often the vocal minority that outweights the silent majority. |
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| The Keeper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Well, it's often the vocal minority that outweights the silent majority. |
Outweighed in terms of talk, not action. These fundamentalists in America that you speak of have cheap TV shows, but no one listens to them, and their views have little to no effect on the country.
A few posts up, someone mentioned that there are 70-100 million Christians in the US. I am more than willing to stand up and be counted as one of them. Also, I would mention that most of the millions mentioned can't stand the Pat Robertson / Jerry Falwell types. They are just simply not listened to, even by most Christians.
It is the values of these millions of Christians, that influence this country. These values sometimes lean a little to the right, but there are millions of Christians who hold liberal political views and vote accordingly. That's because, the conventional form of Christianity is not about influencing the government to get your way. Christianity for most people here is about living a decent, honest life, and believing in Christ's sacrifice for our sin.
As with any idea, there are those who take it too far, and for the wrong reasons. They should not be and are not taken seriously, and they should not be seen as representative of Christianity. |
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| DaveSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Keeper
Outweighed in terms of talk, not action. These fundamentalists in America that you speak of have cheap TV shows, but no one listens to them, and their views have little to no effect on the country.
A few posts up, someone mentioned that there are 70-100 million Christians in the US. I am more than willing to stand up and be counted as one of them. Also, I would mention that most of the millions mentioned can't stand the Pat Robertson / Jerry Falwell types. They are just simply not listened to, even by most Christians.
It is the values of these millions of Christians, that influence this country. These values sometimes lean a little to the right, but there are millions of Christians who hold liberal political views and vote accordingly. That's because, the conventional form of Christianity is not about influencing the government to get your way. Christianity for most people here is about living a decent, honest life, and believing in Christ's sacrifice for our sin.
As with any idea, there are those who take it too far, and for the wrong reasons. They should not be and are not taken seriously, and they should not be seen as representative of Christianity. |
I wish I could agree with you, but I don't think many realize how powerful the fundies are within the political system even though they only represent perhaps 15% of the US popultaion. Pat Robertson is a very wealthy man, and uses his wealth to buy votes and influence. By the early 90's the Fundies had taken working control of the Republican Party.
http://www.4religious-right.info/index.html
United States Sentate Republican Leadership:
Bill Frist, TN
Mitch McConnell, KY
Rick Santorum, PA
Bob Bennet, UT
Kay Bailey Hutchinson, TX
Jon Kyle, AZ
George Allen, VA
| quote: |
They are the seven highest ranking Republican Senators in the U.S. Senate.
Every one of them received a scorecard of 100% from Christian Coalition.
That means they voted with Christian Coalition 100% of the time.
How were people representing such an extreme ideological point of view elected to the top positions in the Republican Party?
The leaders of the Republican Party were chosen by their colleagues.
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Rick Santorum is probably one of the most vile people I can think of with the kind of hateful rhetoric that comes out of his mouth.
Frankly it's a bit shocking he could come to power from a state like Pennsylvania, but it's really more of a reflection of voter apathy I guess.
Luckily there are still some decent Republicans left like McCain and Rudy Giuliani etc. |
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