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Bush Resume for 2004 Election (pg. 3)
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| galdamez |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
And this evidence is not available online? Only through the words of wisdom of michael moore? I'm sorry but the credibility of Moore when it has come to accurate portrayals have been damaged numerous times already. So I just provided a source criticising the resume and my arguments are directly in front of you. Care to point out the falsehoods in the arguments that they are making? |
I could, but I'm not even going to waste my time. The evidence is all around you. I shouldn't even have to cite sources. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by galdamez
I could, but I'm not even going to waste my time. The evidence is all around you. I shouldn't even have to cite sources. |
Hmmm this mentality seems to be quite popular these days. Well, I'll direct you to read my response to the other person that tried to do this:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...5&pagenumber=10
My post should be 5 posts down. If you would like to stand by your beliefs that's fine by me. But if you want to argue or debate a premise of any type of issue and have a meaningful discussion about it, then be prepared to bring sources because unsubstantiated statements usually don't carry much weight. |
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| occrider |
I'll even post a source to argue against me ...
http://idontfeelsogood.blogspot.com...od_archive.html
Unfortunately, that site doesn't do a very good job to support its claims. From all the facts I've read, I can still argue that the resume is a gross misrepresentation of the facts to slander Bush if we actually go into a rational discussion of the claims. Critics of Bush need not refer to such Michael Moorish tactics to make a case against Bush. Ultimately it detracts from their overall credibility, as it turned out to hurt Clark who failed to criticize Moore for erroneously labelling Bush as a deserter. I'm still pissed off at Moore for that one ... :whip: |
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| rizen |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
I'm still pissed off at Moore for that one ... :whip: |
Isn't Clark on the same side of the fence with Moore on this? :stongue: |
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| Tranceporter99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
What a great argument in defense of Bush! Way to go dude! You clearly show the intelligence of Bush supporters! :rolleyes:
All those statements can be backed up with news facts. I'm sure he can post them in the future, but you could also enlighten yourself and do your own research on the man you support. |
Never said anything about supproting him, Heinz was just so damn ignorant that i had to say something, plus you took my comment out of context. |
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| dj adagnitio |
I think that the basic point of the resume is being lost. I don't personally beileve a lot of what it says, and moreover I think that most of the falsehoods are more of misrepresentations and/or exagerations. However I think that the point the document makes still has validity. Several of it's examples where it says George W. has done the most, or cut the most, etc. Are untrue. However they do point out that he has presided over a very very large deficit, and a time of a lot of public outcry to his actions.
The resume should not be taken so literally. If we are to look at it's principles, and facts in a slightly less stringent light it does make several good points.
And as far as Micheal Moore goes, he is 100% completelly a spin doctor. However his facts are almost always (as far as I know) accurate. Where he starts to lose credibility is the way he presents those facts. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj adagnitio
The resume should not be taken so literally. If we are to look at it's principles, and facts in a slightly less stringent light it does make several good points. |
What principles? It's nothing more than a political ploy and domestic propoganda drawn up in an attempt to make Bush look bad. The blatant misrepresentations and falsehoods in the document wipe out any credibility it may have otherwise had. It has no principles. |
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| dj adagnitio |
It does point out that Bush had a national outcry against his policies, even if it wasnt the worst of anyone in history. It does point out that under his government a lot of jobs have been lost, the stock market fell a lot, America went to two wars, one without much support, and so on.
I agree that the document has many falsehoods, but I still feel that beyond that their are some valid points. Perhaps you are right though, I can easily see how one could see that the good is lost in the web of deception. |
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| Renegade |
A lot of claims being tossed back and forth here, but not a long of evidence being offered either way. Let's go through them one by one shall we?
| quote: | Originally posted by Heinz
- I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. |
| quote: | | - I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. |
"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—Governor George Bush Jr., rebroadcast on CNN Larry King Live, November 2, 2000
http://www.geocities.com/green_part...bushdui2000.wav
| quote: | | - My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available. |
Can't find reference.
| quote: | MILITARY:
- I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. |
Bush joined the Air Guard to avoid combat in Vietnam - we know this much - but whether he went AWOL is a little bit more difficult to determine. The Whitehouse has released documents supposedly proving he served his time (see here) but as the article states:
| quote: | | But the story is not going to end there because some of the documents released by the White House are illegible, and Mr Bush still cannot produce a single witness who can confirm that he did show up for duty. |
This was the article that triggered public interest in Bush's military record:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000619...ard_duty+.shtml
From the article:
| quote: | | In Bush's annual efficiency report, dated May 2, 1973, the two supervising pilots did not rate Bush for the prior year, writing, ''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.'' |
The story according to the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...anguage=printer
Salon article:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...national_guard/
| quote: | | - I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. |
Speculative, but not without basis. Bush refused to take a medical test while in the Airforce and was suspended as a result (many believe - without any real solid evidence - that the reasons were drug related):
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
Bush - as he coyly admitted in his 2000 campaign - did however use drugs at around that time:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/080800-102.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...paign082199.htm
You can make up your own mind I guess.
| quote: | | - By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. |
Fact.
| quote: | COLLEGE:
- I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. |
| quote: | | Bush earned an undergraduate degree in history from Yale in 1968. His grades weren't great, and nobody can seem to locate his GMAT scores. |
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily...0010215_777.htm
He does however seem to confess that he averaged only C's:
| quote: | | George W. Bush, Yale '68, was kidding when he addressed the Class of 2001 at his alma mater. "To those of you who received awards and distinctions," he told the new graduates, "I say well done. And to the C students, I say, you too can be president of the United States." |
http://www.goacta.org/press/article...%2009-05-03.htm
Although he still probably managed better grades than Gore! :p
http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/0..._gorepost.shtml
| quote: | | - I was a cheerleader. |
:stongue:
| quote: | PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
- I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. |
"Bush ran for U.S. Congress, unsuccessfully, in 1978."
http://www.edgate.com/elections/ina...andidates/bush/
| quote: | | - I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. |
From same link:
"Founder and CEO of Bush Exploration, an oil and gas investment partnership, 1975-1984."
| quote: | | - I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. |
Hard to find reference, but they seem to allude to it here:
| quote: | | In business, as in politics, Bush is a magnet for money. It wasn't the oil bust that made W.'s early West Texas ventures a failure; his fledgling company, Arbusto, was drilling dry wells and losing money when times were good in the oil patch. And in the face of that failure, it wasn't perseverance or smart business decisions that saved him. Bush kept his businesses solvent the old fashioned way: shaking down his father's network of wealthy supporters, who always seemed to arrive with an infusion of cash just as a company was about to go under. |
http://www.texasobserver.org/showAr...p?ArticleID=264
(Note: he didn't ever "buy" this company, he merely owned it.)
| quote: | | - The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. |
From the same article:
| quote: | The Post also explores Bush's 1990 sale of Harken Oil stock. Harken had bailed Bush out of his final failed oilfield venture in West Texas, by absorbing his company and providing Bush and his partners with one share of Harken stock per five shares of Bush Oil Exploration.
Bush sat on Harken's board and - without the requisite filing that would have informed the Securities and Exchange Commission of a big insider trade - quietly unloaded his stock at the end of a quarter that had produced huge losses. Bush sold at $4 a share in June of 1990. By early August the stock had fallen to $3 a share. On August 20, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, it hit $2.37.
During the 1994 campaign, Ann Richards described the SEC investigation of Bush's failure to file his disclosure until eight months after the legal deadline as "at best, incomplete, at worst, a coverup." The Post's investigation - which pressed Harken for details and examined the SEC findings - suggests that Richards was right. |
And then:
| quote: | In 1990, Bush sold his remaining stock options and left the oil business. Writer Jack Colhoun revealed some details of that stock sale, referring to Bush by his childhood nickname “Junior”:
On June 22, 1990, George Jr. sold two-thirds of his Harken stock for $848,560-a cool 200 percent profit. The move was well timed. One week after Junior sold his stock, Harken announced a $23.2 million loss in quarterly earnings and Harken stock dropped sharply, losing 60 percent of its value over the next six months. On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops moved into Kuwait and 541,000 U.S. forces were deployed to the Gulf.
"There is substantial evidence to suggest that Bush knew Harken was in dire straits in the weeks before he sold the $848,560 of Harken stock," asserted U.S. News & World Report. The magazine noted Harken appointed Junior to a 'fairness committee' to study possible economic restructuring of the company. Junior worked closely with financial advisers from Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Company, who concluded "only drastic action could save Harken." |
http://www.famoustexans.com/georgewbush.htm
(Note: this wasn't Bush's company, just a company he had a large share in.)
| quote: | | - I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. |
"Bush signed 1997 legislation that expressly authorized Texas cities to impose new taxes to finance sports facilities. Months later, Dallas voters agreed to chip in for a $230 million new arena for Hicks' Mavericks and the Dallas Stars."
http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2...arch/wheat.html
| quote: | | - With the help of my father and our rightwing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas. |
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stor...000/bush.money/
http://www.motherjones.com/news/spe...400/76_lay.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2060884/
| quote: | ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. |
| quote: | TOM BEARDEN: Environmentalists point to the fact that during Bush's tenure, Texas has achieved the dubious distinction, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, of having the dirtiest air in America, of ranking 47th in water quality, and having the seventh-highest rate of release of toxic industrial byproducts onto its land. Ken Kramer is the Sierra Club's Texas state director.
KEN KRAMER: Our assessment of Governor Bush on the environment is that basically he's shown a great deal of indifference to the environment, and his indifference to the environment has allowed people such as those in industry to really call the shots on environmental policy. As a result, we haven't seen any real progress in Texas in the last five years on the environment. |
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/elec...nment_8-22.html
An examination of Bush's environmental record as governor, as well as descriptions of laws passed:
http://www.txpeer.org/Bush/Quiet_Little_War2.html
| quote: | | - During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog ridden city in America. |
"In 1999 and 2000, for the first time, Houston's ozone readings ranked as the nation's most severe -- even worse than the perennial ozone leader, Los Angeles."
http://www.houstonian.freeservers.c.../news/news6.htm
| quote: | | - I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. |
Can't find reference.
| quote: | | - I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. |
"Of course, as governor of the Lone Star state, George Bush signed off on far more executions, a record-breaking 152, but sign off is all he did. Unlike Mr Willett, Mr Bush did not have to share the last hours of the men and women he condemned, and he did not have to oversee the messy business with tubes and syringes by which convicts are lethally injected."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere...,491222,00.html
If you want to know their names:
http://www.tcadp.org/bush.html
| quote: | | - With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes. |
This is a touchy issue on this forum, that we're probably never going to resolve. Firstly, yes Bush did lose by 500,000 votes:
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm
Under the electoral college system though, he did win. Some believe that if the recounts had been allowed to continue, that Gore may have emerged as the eventual winner of Florida and thus the election, but it's pretty hard to tell. See Greg Palast for his well researched, well sourced, slightly paranoid examination of how he believes Bush "stole" the presidency:
http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.c...of%20Presidency
Ach, it's too late. I'll do the rest later. |
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| St_Andrew |
| hehe nice post Renegade :D |
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| occrider |
| quote: |
A lot of claims being tossed back and forth here, but not a long of evidence being offered either way. Let's go through them one by one shall we?
quote:
Originally posted by Heinz
- I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol.
quote:
- I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days.
"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—Governor George Bush Jr., rebroadcast on CNN Larry King Live, November 2, 2000
http://www.geocities.com/green_part...bushdui2000.wav
quote:
- My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.
Can't find reference.
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Yup it’s quite widely known he has a DUI.
| quote: |
quote:
MILITARY:
- I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL.
Bush joined the Air Guard to avoid combat in Vietnam - we know this much - but whether he went AWOL is a little bit more difficult to determine. The Whitehouse has released documents supposedly proving he served his time (see here) but as the article states:
quote:
But the story is not going to end there because some of the documents released by the White House are illegible, and Mr Bush still cannot produce a single witness who can confirm that he did show up for duty.
This was the article that triggered public interest in Bush's military record:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000619...ard_duty+.shtml
From the article:
quote:
In Bush's annual efficiency report, dated May 2, 1973, the two supervising pilots did not rate Bush for the prior year, writing, ''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.''
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Charges of AWOL are unsubstantiated allegations. Hardly capable of being held up in court. The issue was thoroughly analyzed in far greater depth than 2 second sound bites:
| quote: |
The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either
By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan
For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up the time he missed." And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush never actually reported in person for the last two years of his service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."
Neither is correct.
It's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.
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At the Republican convention in Philadelphia, George W. Bush declared: "Our military is low on parts, pay and morale. If called on by the commander-in-chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Bush says he is the candidate who can "rebuild our military and prepare our armed forces for the future." On what direct military experience does he make such claims?
George W. Bush applied to join the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, less than two weeks before he graduated from Yale University. The country was at war in Vietnam, and at that time, just months after the bloody Tet Offensive, an estimated 100,000 Americans were on waiting lists to join Guard units across the country. Bush was sworn in on the day he applied.
Ben Barnes, former speaker of the Texas House of Representatives, stated in September 1999 that in late 1967 or early 1968, he asked a senior official in the Texas Air National Guard to help Bush get into the Guard as a pilot. Barnes said he did so at the behest of Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and friend of former President George H. W. Bush, then a Texas congressman. Despite Barnes's admission, former President Bush has denied pulling strings for his son, and retired Colonel Walter Staudt, George W. Bush's first commander, insists: "There was no special treatment."
The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt. Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1, 1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his participation, and without exception, his performance has been noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity. Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense, Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard again.
Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama. Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush "cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery, Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31 higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron."
Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during that summer.
On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of flying at that time."
Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however, denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he didn't take the exam,not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges. Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit drugs, Hodges replied: "No."
On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the 187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit. "This duty would be for the months of September, October, and November," wrote Bush.
This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did not fly F-102s.
The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't think he showed up," Turnipseed said.
Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.
After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973, Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone saying he came back and made up his days."
Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and 32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous" points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated 56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to maintain his standing as a Guardsman.
On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10 sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19 active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July 30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.
On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days of service toward his six-year service obligation.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001202...g.com/bush.html
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A non-partisan fact checking site: http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=131
Yes well as you say, speculative and unsubstantiated.
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quote:
- By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.
Fact.
quote:
COLLEGE:
- I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
quote:
Bush earned an undergraduate degree in history from Yale in 1968. His grades weren't great, and nobody can seem to locate his GMAT scores.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily...0010215_777.htm
He does however seem to confess that he averaged only C's:
quote:
George W. Bush, Yale '68, was kidding when he addressed the Class of 2001 at his alma mater. "To those of you who received awards and distinctions," he told the new graduates, "I say well done. And to the C students, I say, you too can be president of the United States."
http://www.goacta.org/press/article...%2009-05-03.htm
Although he still probably managed better grades than Gore!
http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/0..._gorepost.shtml
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True but not one of the items that is really in dispute.
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quote:
- I was a cheerleader.
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Damned fruit.
True but hardly an indicative of anything.
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quote:
- I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975.
From same link:
"Founder and CEO of Bush Exploration, an oil and gas investment partnership, 1975-1984."
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Nothing wrong with that so far.
| quote: |
quote:
- I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas.
Hard to find reference, but they seem to allude to it here:
quote:
In business, as in politics, Bush is a magnet for money. It wasn't the oil bust that made W.'s early West Texas ventures a failure; his fledgling company, Arbusto, was drilling dry wells and losing money when times were good in the oil patch. And in the face of that failure, it wasn't perseverance or smart business decisions that saved him. Bush kept his businesses solvent the old fashioned way: shaking down his father's network of wealthy supporters, who always seemed to arrive with an infusion of cash just as a company was about to go under.
http://www.texasobserver.org/showAr...p?ArticleID=264
(Note: he didn't ever "buy" this company, he merely owned it.)
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Fallacy: False Dilemma
1. Either someone can have a successful oil drilling business in oil rich texas or that someone is incompetant.
2. Bush did not have a successful oil drilling business in oil rich texas.
3. Bush is an idiot.
| quote: |
quote:
- The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
From the same article:
quote:
The Post also explores Bush's 1990 sale of Harken Oil stock. Harken had bailed Bush out of his final failed oilfield venture in West Texas, by absorbing his company and providing Bush and his partners with one share of Harken stock per five shares of Bush Oil Exploration.
Bush sat on Harken's board and - without the requisite filing that would have informed the Securities and Exchange Commission of a big insider trade - quietly unloaded his stock at the end of a quarter that had produced huge losses. Bush sold at $4 a share in June of 1990. By early August the stock had fallen to $3 a share. On August 20, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, it hit $2.37.
During the 1994 campaign, Ann Richards described the SEC investigation of Bush's failure to file his disclosure until eight months after the legal deadline as "at best, incomplete, at worst, a coverup." The Post's investigation - which pressed Harken for details and examined the SEC findings - suggests that Richards was right.
And then:
quote:
In 1990, Bush sold his remaining stock options and left the oil business. Writer Jack Colhoun revealed some details of that stock sale, referring to Bush by his childhood nickname “Junior”:
On June 22, 1990, George Jr. sold two-thirds of his Harken stock for $848,560-a cool 200 percent profit. The move was well timed. One week after Junior sold his stock, Harken announced a $23.2 million loss in quarterly earnings and Harken stock dropped sharply, losing 60 percent of its value over the next six months. On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops moved into Kuwait and 541,000 U.S. forces were deployed to the Gulf.
"There is substantial evidence to suggest that Bush knew Harken was in dire straits in the weeks before he sold the $848,560 of Harken stock," asserted U.S. News & World Report. The magazine noted Harken appointed Junior to a 'fairness committee' to study possible economic restructuring of the company. Junior worked closely with financial advisers from Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Company, who concluded "only drastic action could save Harken."
http://www.famoustexans.com/georgewbush.htm
(Note: this wasn't Bush's company, just a company he had a large share in.)
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I see the article failed to note that the stock price jumped back to $4 a share 4 days later and in the next year, the stock price was at $8. Double what bush sold his shares at.
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When his father was president, there were suspicions that the Persian Gulf nation of Bahrain tried to enrich the younger Bush. Bahrain granted an exclusive drilling contract to Harken Energy Corporation, in which the younger Bush held stock. But he says he opposed the deal.
Bush spokesperson Karen Hughes says, "He felt the company just was not large enough, that it was outside the scope of their experience." And the deal turned out to be a loser, abandoned after two expensive dry holes.
In 1990 Bush unloaded most of his Harken shares for $835,000 about two months before Harken announced a big loss. That triggered an investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission into possible insider trading by Bush, but the SEC took no action.
A look at Harken's stock price may show why: Bush sold for $4 a share. Harken stock did dip to $2.38 the day after the bad earnings were released, but four days later bounced right back to $4 a share, exactly what Bush had been paid.
And the stock kept rising: Bush attorney Robert Jordan said, "A year later, in fact, the value had doubled to $8 a share."
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stor...0/jackson.bush/
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- I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.
"Bush signed 1997 legislation that expressly authorized Texas cities to impose new taxes to finance sports facilities. Months later, Dallas voters agreed to chip in for a $230 million new arena for Hicks' Mavericks and the Dallas Stars."
http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2...arch/wheat.html
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Illogical assumption of wrongdoing. Since the 1950s all but one stadium has been fully funded by taxpayers. Voted for by taxpayers, and deal resulted in a financially successful team.
Who also helped the other side as well according to your sources.
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ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
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TOM BEARDEN: Environmentalists point to the fact that during Bush's tenure, Texas has achieved the dubious distinction, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, of having the dirtiest air in America, of ranking 47th in water quality, and having the seventh-highest rate of release of toxic industrial byproducts onto its land. Ken Kramer is the Sierra Club's Texas state director.
KEN KRAMER: Our assessment of Governor Bush on the environment is that basically he's shown a great deal of indifference to the environment, and his indifference to the environment has allowed people such as those in industry to really call the shots on environmental policy. As a result, we haven't seen any real progress in Texas in the last five years on the environment.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/elec...nment_8-22.html
An examination of Bush's environmental record as governor, as well as descriptions of laws passed:
http://www.txpeer.org/Bush/Quiet_Little_War2.html
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- During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog ridden city in America.
"In 1999 and 2000, for the first time, Houston's ozone readings ranked as the nation's most severe -- even worse than the perennial ozone leader, Los Angeles."
http://www.houstonian.freeservers.c.../news/news6.htm
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In an April speech, Vice President Al Gore charged that Texas is the "No. 1 most polluted state in America." Going even further, the League of Conservation Voters says Gov. George W. Bush's tenure in Texas led to "worsening air quality and a general governing philosophy that, if applied nationally, would jeopardize three decades of national environmental progress."
Bush's critics cite two misleading pieces of information to support their claims, says NCPA Senior Policy Analyst H. Sterling Burnett: Texas leads the nation in toxic releases, and Houston recently replaced Los Angeles as the city with the nation's "dirtiest" air.
Here are the salient facts:
Not surprisingly, Texas did lead the nation in toxic releases since the state leads the nation in chemical processing and oil refining -- but according to the Environmental Protection Agency toxic releases in Texas actually fell by 14 percent between 1995 and 1997, compared with an average 1.5 percent decline for all states.
According to the EPA figures, during that period, Texas reduced the amount of toxic chemicals released by 42 million pounds -- more than all the other states combined.
Moreover, the toxic release inventory is not a meaningful measure of the risk from chemical releases since it includes shipments of chemicals from one company to another, shipments to a landfill -- even if required by law -- and recycling or reuse of listed chemicals.
Also, the EPA considers only the number of pounds of a chemical released -- without regard to its danger.
Bush's environmental defenders point out that he pioneered a voluntary plan that reduced air pollution from industrial plants and utilities in Texas.
Source: H. Sterling Burnett (National Center for Policy Analysis), "Is Lone Star State Nation's Dirtiest? Gore Says Yes, Data Say Otherwise," Investor's Business Daily, June 13, 2000.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/enviro/pd061300a.html
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- I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.
"Of course, as governor of the Lone Star state, George Bush signed off on far more executions, a record-breaking 152, but sign off is all he did. Unlike Mr Willett, Mr Bush did not have to share the last hours of the men and women he condemned, and he did not have to oversee the messy business with tubes and syringes by which convicts are lethally injected."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere...,491222,00.html
If you want to know their names:
http://www.tcadp.org/bush.html
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Perhaps the guardian should educate itself on texas state law:
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The Governor and the Judicary
Because judges at all levels of the Texas judiciary are elected, the Governor exercises less power over the judiciary than the US President, who makes all appointments to the federal judiciary. Yet governors do get some opportunities to influence the state judiciary, because the governor appoints judges to fill vacancies that result from death, removal, resignation, or the creation of new courts by the legislature. These appointed judges will have the advantage of incumbency should they seek reelection. The governor also has limited powers of clemency, which gives him or her the capacity to grant relief from criminal punishment. Unlike governors in many states, the Texas Governor cannot independently issue a pardon or sentence commutation. In death penalty cases, the governor can issue one thirty-day reprieve. He or she can also make recommendations to the Board of Pardons and Paroles and can either approve or reject the board's recommendations on pardons or sentence reductions.
Prior to a 1934 constitutional amendment, the governor had independent pardon powers. The amendment removing these powers was added after Jim and Miriam Ferguson were accused of selling clemency during her term as Governor. In modern times, governors have used what clemency powers they have been left with sparingly. As the application of the death penalty in the state has come under increasing scrutiny and criticism, and new technology has been made available to review old cases, governors have used reprieves to deflect criticism by allowing for further review of death penalty cases. These incidents have been rare, given the weak opposition to capital punishment. In cases where there is some compelling question about carrying out an execution, governors are ultimately in a safe position. Granting a thirty-day reprieve can appear judicious but not overly soft on criminals, as the governor cannot prevent an execution on his or her own. Yet in the event a mistake is found and a wrongful execution prevented, the governor is likely to appear careful and just. Still, Texas governors have granted such reprieves relatively rarely.
http://texaspolitics.lamc.utexas.ed.../exec/0700.html
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- With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.
This is a touchy issue on this forum, that we're probably never going to resolve. Firstly, yes Bush did lose by 500,000 votes:
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm
Under the electoral college system though, he did win. Some believe that if the recounts had been allowed to continue, that Gore may have emerged as the eventual winner of Florida and thus the election, but it's pretty hard to tell. See Greg Palast for his well researched, well sourced, slightly paranoid examination of how he believes Bush "stole" the presidency:
http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.c...of%20Presidency
Ach, it's too late. I'll do the rest later.
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LOL not this again. I’m sure if we do a bunch of searches we can find all the arguments all over again. But like I said before, I would be willing to do a recount IF that recount had taken place in EVERY single contested county and state of the Union, not just the largest democratic county of florida ;)
And by the way ... Bush sr. only appointed 2 supreme court justices. The vote was 7 to 2 ...
Edit: And I have no idea where its getting it's info on Bush bankrupting texas. Apparentely he took the $7 billion dollar deficit, and initiated tax cuts while retaining the surplus at $1 billion.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa010201a.htm |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
What a great argument in defense of Bush! Way to go dude! You clearly show the intelligence of Bush supporters! :rolleyes:
All those statements can be backed up with news facts. I'm sure he can post them in the future, but you could also enlighten yourself and do your own research on the man you support. |
If you want to pick about Bush' past,Let's examine Clinton for a moment. Oh Golly,he did drugs. Don't you remeber? |
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