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My Theory On XTC
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| dj_cuba |
I was reading a website yesterday about how XTC works. The article said that MDMA works by causing the positive brain chemical seretonin to be released in massive quantities. However, once the MDMA has worn off there is little seretonin left and this is what makes the comedown seem so bad. It can take up to two weeks for the seretonin levels to reach normal again.
This got me thinking, when we are naturally happy or high the same thing must happen. Obviously our bodies can can never release the amount of Seretonin that MDMA can in our natural state. However by theory however happy we are, we must ultimatly have to experience the same level of negative feelings soon after as our positive body chemicals will be lower.
Please let me know your opinions... |
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| mongeone |
| it doesnt work that way. think of it like a car: the car runs the same whether it has a full tank of petrol or half a tank its only when its empty that it stops working. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by mongeone
it doesnt work that way. think of it like a car: the car runs the same whether it has a full tank of petrol or half a tank its only when its empty that it stops working. |
I think that's only half correct... while serotonin is serotonin whether you have a little or a lot of it, what actually matters is how much of it is being released into your system at one time. Sort of like how far to the floor the gas pedal is, in your analogy. :p Normally, different things cause different amounts of serotonin to be released... if you have *none left*, which can happen with E, then you are guaranteed to be depressed, but you're not guaranteed to be happy if it's in abundant supply. |
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| igottaknow |
I'm always in a bad mood, I must have a load of seretonin built up. :stongue: If i dropped some e i'd probably turn into a teletubby
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| Boomer187 |
its also theorised to be bad since it does artificially increase seretonin, the body will naturally stop making it. Which is the problem with a lot of drugs when you take them a lot. If it is getting its supply from somewhere, it will stop making it to save energy.
But I a, guessing the normal flucuations in seretonin levels could not cause a bad mood tooccur after a good mood. Since a drug is giving you the seretonin, the body adjusts its levels to it, once it stops your body is still at those levels, but when it is naturally producing it, it can stay at thsoe levels or slowly fall, then rise, or slowly fall way down....
there are also a few other neurotransmitters that put you in a good mood, but don't completely understand them all. So it could be another one having effects on us...who knows. |
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| Lephaid |
The thing is, when the amount of serotonin is reduced, your brain usually increases serotonin receptor responsiveness/sensitivity to compensate. Serotonin normally fluctuates over time. I know someone right now experimening with a serotonin reuptake accelerator (basically reduces the overall amount of serotonin production in the brain) to see if it actually will cause negative effects like depression.
MDMA floods the brain with abnormally high amounts of serotonin, which can lead to the destruction of serotonin pathways in the brain (like SSRI based anti-depressants).
Aside from serotonin, norepinephrine is also tied closely to depression. Ecstasy also causes swells in that neurotransmitter, as well as epinephrine and dopamine. The sites for neurotransmitters that the drug holds affinities for also need to be taken into account. The damaged possibly caused by MDMA is complex.
Ecstasy destroying serotonin production completely in your brain is impossible, because you'd cease to live without it. 5HT is integral to normal brain functioning.
What Boomer said about your body stopping producing serotonin probably isn't too important based on what we know about anti-depressant drugs that increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. Usually the drugs cause two weeks or so of medium-difficulty withdrawl, but eventually most people seem to return to normal. The whole concept behind anti-depressants is to raise your serotonin levels so you can get your life stable and back on track from depression over a period of 6 months to a year usually, then go off them and try to resume living without them. |
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| dj_cuba |
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
its also theorised to be bad since it does artificially increase seretonin, the body will naturally stop making it. Which is the problem with a lot of drugs when you take them a lot. If it is getting its supply from somewhere, it will stop making it to save energy.
But I a, guessing the normal flucuations in seretonin levels could not cause a bad mood tooccur after a good mood. Since a drug is giving you the seretonin, the body adjusts its levels to it, once it stops your body is still at those levels, but when it is naturally producing it, it can stay at thsoe levels or slowly fall, then rise, or slowly fall way down....
there are also a few other neurotransmitters that put you in a good mood, but don't completely understand them all. So it could be another one having effects on us...who knows. |
Ecstacy uses up the serotonin you currently have, it does not produce it. This is why you get the comedown once the serotonin is used up and why ecstacy can cause depression if overused. |
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| SpecialEd |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_cuba
I was reading a website yesterday about how XTC works. The article said that MDMA works by causing the positive brain chemical seretonin to be released in massive quantities. However, once the MDMA has worn off there is little seretonin left and this is what makes the comedown seem so bad. It can take up to two weeks for the seretonin levels to reach normal again.
This got me thinking, when we are naturally happy or high the same thing must happen. Obviously our bodies can can never release the amount of Seretonin that MDMA can in our natural state. However by theory however happy we are, we must ultimatly have to experience the same level of negative feelings soon after as our positive body chemicals will be lower.
Please let me know your opinions... |
ever try prozac? any anti-depressants? 5-HTP?
5-HTP and most anti-depressants raise the level of seteronin in your brain. Not like an XTC high, but enough to relieve negative moods.
But, what XTC does is allow your serotonin neuron to act in reverse. Meaning when ecstasy is transported through axon terminal, it acts as a serotonin axon.. When it goes inside the serotonin axon sac, it rejects the axon and releases all the serotonin in those sacs. Causing the 'xtc' high. But when your on a normal 'high' of happiness, it only releases few axons, not tons, like what xtc does. So you don't 'crash' after.. Alot of people who live content lives don't have the same kind of effect of depression after serotonin loss. In fact, when you take 5-HTP or an anti-depressant after rolling, you won't even feel that 'depressing' feeling. because it raises your serotonin levels. 5-HTP is great after rolling, it's the precursor to serotonin(the building block) and it helps you regain your serotonin on at a fast rate. It doesn't necessarally fix your damaged serotonin axons after using ecstasy, but just replenishs your serotonin.
The one thing that is certain about ecstasy, is that it does damage your serotonin axons. I can't really go into laymans terms on how the axons are damaged, but it's because they we're "overworked" during ecstasy usage.. thus wearing their neuron stems. that's why sometimes after rolling, you forget some stuff easily, and your short-term memory is slow for awhile.. Because the axons don't react as fast as they used to prior to ecstasy usage. Overtime they fix themselves and stuff. |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_cuba
Ecstacy uses up the serotonin you currently have, it does not produce it. This is why you get the comedown once the serotonin is used up and why ecstacy can cause depression if overused. |
srry, meant excess seretonin release.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lephaid
The whole concept behind anti-depressants is to raise your serotonin levels so you can get your life stable and back on track from depression over a period of 6 months to a year usually, then go off them and try to resume living without them. |
hehe, thats a key step a lot of people are overlooking. They feel good from the pills and decide it is easier to take pills than work problems out. but thats another story. |
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| TeKnoHe@d2025 |
| On that recent Peter Jennings report about MDMA they stated that in a German study they discovered that it's only about a 5% seretonin loss, which is replenished after 2-3 months of not using. |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TeKnoHe@d2025
On that recent Peter Jennings report about MDMA they stated that in a German study they discovered that it's only about a 5% seretonin loss, which is replenished after 2-3 months of not using. |
is that one use though? It is most likely different with multiple uses. |
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