|
Can someone from Europe possibly explain this to me (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| NYCTrancefan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
It's not that we want to believe it's isolated, it's the fact that we recognized the problem ages ago and are in the process of doing something about it, which is way past the stage where we stand paralyzed with disgust at the fact that something like this still happens, the stage which this thread indicates that you are right now, NYC. I still find it somewhat hard to believe that your view of Europe was that positive considering all the that's been going on.
As far as Carew is concerned, he got similar remarks as Russel in a match against Boznia-Hercegovina. That being said, here at home several black players are currently on various national league teams, and I've heard nothing of any racist remarks against them. So it might be a bit more isolated than you think. |
Hey I've always had a positive view of Europe from a cultural standpoint because I usually absorb myself in learning the languages and cultural history. Can't be an International Relations and History major without some strong insight. I was speaking with someone the other day over MSN Messenger from Germany and they couldn't believe that I was in the U.S. and knew so much about Europe, they found it odd and yet extraordinary indeed, I love those responses, because you know the person was thinking just another American. At any rate I know the world isn't Utopian and people will never like everyone for whatever reasons, its not that hard to ignore others who you don't like under any circumstance, however some people have to act out their fancies through violence. |
|
|
| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
Agreed. And just so that it has been said: I don't see why Norway has to apologize itself just because a dozen football fans decided to act like racist retards. That action is taken against it and that the problem is recognized should be more than enough. |
Agreed....
And Rummy shouldn't have to apologize for some retarted US GIs pyramid building exercises in Iraq - but he did.
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Agreed....
And Rummy shouldn't have to apologize for some retarted US GIs pyramid building exercises in Iraq - but he did.
:rolleyes: |
If Norway had been in command of its football fans, it would have been a totally different story. I see your point though. |
|
|
| DaveSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Agreed....
And Rummy shouldn't have to apologize for some retarted US GIs pyramid building exercises in Iraq - but he did.
:rolleyes: |
"Army Pfc. Lynndie R. England was ordered by her superiors to pose with naked Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, her attorneys said Monday, so that the photos could be used to frighten and demoralize other prisoners. "
"They picked her to get the smallest, youngest, lowest-rank woman they could find, and that would increase the humiliation for an Iraqi man," said Rose Mary Zapor, another member of the Denver-based legal team. "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004May10.html |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveSZ
"Army Pfc. Lynndie R. England was ordered by her superiors to pose with naked Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, her attorneys said Monday, so that the photos could be used to frighten and demoralize other prisoners. "
"They picked her to get the smallest, youngest, lowest-rank woman they could find, and that would increase the humiliation for an Iraqi man," said Rose Mary Zapor, another member of the Denver-based legal team. "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004May10.html |
Heh ... according to her lawyers. Of course defense laywers always seem to have wacky things to say in the face of incontrovertible proof as evidenced by this extreme example:
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/35/moxley-exclusive.php
Anyway I don't buy the cover story her lawyers are posing. In every single picture she always seems to be happily smiling despite the fact that the prisoners are all hooded and can't see her smiling so how is that humiliating them? She's a sick bitch smiling because she's enjoying her role in all of this.
While I don't discount the fact that she may have been approached to do this by some lower echelon troops, it seems unlikely that she received offical orders or senior officials are guilty of anything except for negligence as evidenced by Taguba's testimony.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...main/index.html
Edit: Oops i guess I should have read the entire quote. I still dispute her claims however. If she knew it was wrong, why didn't she come forward to say something? |
|
|
| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
|
true.
The defense would have a case if this was a written order.
If I were ordered to undertake such an immoral action, at least I would request the order be transcribed. |
|
|
| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Agreed....
And Rummy shouldn't have to apologize for some retarted US GIs pyramid building exercises in Iraq - but he did.
:rolleyes: |
lol i saw that one comming... hehe..
but i think sand leaper covered that pretty well.. and usally if something like this (fans behaivning like ) happends, booth the fotball club and the fan club apologize and takes it all very seriously... or at least they do in sweden, guess it's the same in norway... :) |
|
|
| borron |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vesa
Here's my blunt explanation. The truth may hurt, but in the end it's usually better to say it like it is.
Many European countries (Scandinavian countries especially) have been run for a long time by the politically correct crowd who use totalitarian methods to stick to power and completely dominate the media. Just look at what happened to Vlaams Blok in Belgium. Fair competion in politics does not exist here. And to Yoepus: the so-called "free speech" means only that Socialists are free to criticize Israel. Ordinary guys are persecuted by law for any politically incorrect speech. In Soviet Socialism, they killed those with loose lips, but in Scandinavian Socialism, you just lose your job and maybe your future.
The Scandinavian welfare state has gained much favourable publicity, but it's stumbling ahead on inertia alone. It's obvious to any sane observer on the street that we are sinking fast. Literally, I can't believe my eyes when I go out. Not many guys here are good enough to make it against US-level competition. Our lousy politicians don't have a clue. Especially, what on earth are the Socialists and Greens thinking?! Legalizing cannabis and other miniscule issues seem to preoccupy their minds, while decisive issues such as enterprise, unemployment and education are brushed aside. We'll run out of money soon if we continue with this kind of silly politics. Just like it's now obvious that Soviet Communism couldn't work, it will be similarly obvious after a couple of decades that Scandinavian Socialism can't work.
One current favourite issue of Socialists and politically correct Liberals is uncontrolled and irresponsible immigration. Of course, anything else uncontrolled and irresponsible is similarly loved by them because they are idealists and detached from reality. You know the ultra-feminist, pro-rainbow, anti-military type who gets her kicks out of rebellious (read: naive) politics. For example, our current President and Foreign Minister are former hardcore student radicals. If you say something bad about them in public, the media is going to shut you up. They love to play a game of chicken with our countries, and they aren't going to allow anyone stop their funny game.
Very sadly, when a European real man sees an immigrant (a black immigrant especially), he automatically associates him with politically correct stupid politicians. Seeing a black man with a Socialist white woman is doubly bad because then you see both who's running this place and what's her main preoccupation. Normal guys can't properly voice their objections against these reversed priorities, so a lot of their frustration is poured on immigrants, resulting in racistic attacks.
Too bad that the US only defeated European Communism. If the US had defeated every type of European sissy Socialism as well, there would now be much less racism in Europe. Then immigration would be associated with responsible politics instead of with cabinet feminists. But I understand that the US had other more pressing things to do after having already done so much against the Soviet Union.
This explanation may sound funny (and I admit I was joking a bit), but Scandinavia is dying under Socialist and Liberal policies. Just look at the totalitarian response after this soccer episode from the news media and the (sports) bureaucracy. Whenever they have an opportunity to go on a crusade against the ordinary guy, they do it. And moreover, they do it in a way which is more hypocritical than even the US fundamentalists at their worst.
Soccer fans are mostly men who know what they see, and when they can't escape Socialist policies even temporarily during a soccer match, they get mad as hell. If the black guy had just said afterwards briefly on TV that the fans went overboard, they might have realized their mistake. But when it was taken up by the politically correct media, now the fans may not regret at all because the media makes them puke.
But if you had asked them at the soccer match what they think about top politicians, then you might have gotten a nastier response, even surpassing their racistic attitudes. That would tell you where the real problem lies, and where the hatred really comes from. Often after talking with a black guy in person, they change their attitudes because they realize they are just talking to another man. But after talking with a politically correct politician in person, they just get angrier. The easiest way to avoid their aggression is to avoid becoming guilty by PC association. |
Come on, are you going to blame socialism for all of Europe's problems?! Maybe it's also the cause of AIDS, teenage pregnancy and small penises? :whip: |
|
|
| Virus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vesa
Here's my blunt explanation. The truth may hurt, but in the end it's usually better to say it like it is.
Many European countries (Scandinavian countries especially) have been run for a long time by the politically correct crowd who use totalitarian methods to stick to power and completely dominate the media. Just look at what happened to Vlaams Blok in Belgium. Fair competion in politics does not exist here. And to Yoepus: the so-called "free speech" means only that Socialists are free to criticize Israel. Ordinary guys are persecuted by law for any politically incorrect speech. In Soviet Socialism, they killed those with loose lips, but in Scandinavian Socialism, you just lose your job and maybe your future.
The Scandinavian welfare state has gained much favourable publicity, but it's stumbling ahead on inertia alone. It's obvious to any sane observer on the street that we are sinking fast. Literally, I can't believe my eyes when I go out. Not many guys here are good enough to make it against US-level competition. Our lousy politicians don't have a clue. Especially, what on earth are the Socialists and Greens thinking?! Legalizing cannabis and other miniscule issues seem to preoccupy their minds, while decisive issues such as enterprise, unemployment and education are brushed aside. We'll run out of money soon if we continue with this kind of silly politics. Just like it's now obvious that Soviet Communism couldn't work, it will be similarly obvious after a couple of decades that Scandinavian Socialism can't work.
One current favourite issue of Socialists and politically correct Liberals is uncontrolled and irresponsible immigration. Of course, anything else uncontrolled and irresponsible is similarly loved by them because they are idealists and detached from reality. You know the ultra-feminist, pro-rainbow, anti-military type who gets her kicks out of rebellious (read: naive) politics. For example, our current President and Foreign Minister are former hardcore student radicals. If you say something bad about them in public, the media is going to shut you up. They love to play a game of chicken with our countries, and they aren't going to allow anyone stop their funny game.
Very sadly, when a European real man sees an immigrant (a black immigrant especially), he automatically associates him with politically correct stupid politicians. Seeing a black man with a Socialist white woman is doubly bad because then you see both who's running this place and what's her main preoccupation. Normal guys can't properly voice their objections against these reversed priorities, so a lot of their frustration is poured on immigrants, resulting in racistic attacks.
Too bad that the US only defeated European Communism. If the US had defeated every type of European sissy Socialism as well, there would now be much less racism in Europe. Then immigration would be associated with responsible politics instead of with cabinet feminists. But I understand that the US had other more pressing things to do after having already done so much against the Soviet Union.
This explanation may sound funny (and I admit I was joking a bit), but Scandinavia is dying under Socialist and Liberal policies. Just look at the totalitarian response after this soccer episode from the news media and the (sports) bureaucracy. Whenever they have an opportunity to go on a crusade against the ordinary guy, they do it. And moreover, they do it in a way which is more hypocritical than even the US fundamentalists at their worst.
Soccer fans are mostly men who know what they see, and when they can't escape Socialist policies even temporarily during a soccer match, they get mad as hell. If the black guy had just said afterwards briefly on TV that the fans went overboard, they might have realized their mistake. But when it was taken up by the politically correct media, now the fans may not regret at all because the media makes them puke.
But if you had asked them at the soccer match what they think about top politicians, then you might have gotten a nastier response, even surpassing their racistic attitudes. That would tell you where the real problem lies, and where the hatred really comes from. Often after talking with a black guy in person, they change their attitudes because they realize they are just talking to another man. But after talking with a politically correct politician in person, they just get angrier. The easiest way to avoid their aggression is to avoid becoming guilty by PC association. |
I agree with alot of what you said here, especially about the social democrats obsession with beeing politically correct. Only thing is that the discription seems to fit better for Sweden than for Finland. I was under the impression that you guys basically never let any immigrants stay. Not even refugees. |
|
|
| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vesa
... |
I partially agree with you on some points, but disagree on the others. It is true that the political left is overconcerned about irrelevant issues, as well as that it is infiltrated with sissy hippies. On the other hand, I must say that Scandinavia is really not generally threatened in any way, so it's not necessary to maintain a strong armed forces, although working a bit on the internal security wouldn't be too bad. Now, as for immigration, while it is obvious that mass multiculturalist immigration is bringing with it enormous problems, we must be aware that the number of children all over Europe is dangerously low. If it wasn't for that problem, there wouldn't be much need for deregulated immigration. What do you suggest should be a better formula to maintain population growth? |
|
|
| Spin Doctor |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
What do you suggest should be a better formula to maintain population growth? |
Free love! ;) |
|
|
| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
What do you suggest should be a better formula to maintain population growth? |
Don't smoke cigarettes
Don't take any drugs
Don't go out at night
Just . |
|
|
|
|
