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Apache Helicopter vs.... innocent farmers in Iraq (pg. 5)
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| Arg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spartan
Poland kid, during WW2 your country was defeated in what like 1 week? Didn't you have like calvary charging against German tanks? Maybe thats why you didn't have many losses, b/c you weren't fighting for more than a couple days. Don't call Americans stupid horse boy.
Also its well known that the Russians had one gun for every 4 soldiers, and used to just charge into German machine gun fire. Life losses cannot be used exclusively to showcase a countries involvement in a war. We were fighting both Japan and Germany at the same time, while most of Europe was just fighting Germany. I think its safe to say we were involved. |
Yeah how about you stop typing now. You basically restated what I said! Maybe next time you should read my posts before you bash them? I already said that Poland didn't have much of a military. However it still had one of the highest death counts due to the murdering of the jews. Do you call almost Five million people dead "not many losses?" I also talked about the whole Russian thing. If you actually find something that I have not talked about then please post it. Don't post what I say and then say I missed it.
Thanks.
| quote: | Originally posted by Spartan
However I will say one more thing, please remember when you bash us that the US went into the Iraqi war with the best intentions. Our original plan was to set up an independent Iraq with a democratic government several months after the main fighting stopped. Now that this task has become extremely difficult we can't simply pull out and leave the Iraqi people leaderless. We're stuck there, and even though we'll get the worlds criticism, you have to finish what yous start. |
Actually the reason was to remove a global threat and any mass destruction weapons within the area; but thanks for playing anyway. Funny how the focus suddenly went from prevention of war to "peace" when they figured out there were no mass destruction weapons, eh? Oh and finish what you start? Oh you mean like in Vietnam...where it got too hard and the Americans just left? God that would be unethical or something. Then again there was no oil in Vietnam right? |
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| DjSway |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
Ok so you don't want pilots who break the law but...
Thats breaking the law (not rules law, international law).... hence they are criminals. It is simply a fact.
Deside what you want dogmatic support for criminals or pilots who are proptional in responce and can act in a controlled manner. Bear in mind this helicopter was kms (not in imediate danger, forget the "RPG"/pipe even if it was he didn't have it) away and that guy was rolling about on the ground. Some would call that murder. |
I didn't see the full video, but from what I remember the guy was rolling around after being shot at with A 30mm automatic Boeing M230 Chain Gun, designed to penetrate armor plating. Unfortunately, that guy didn't have much of a chance of surviving his injuries. You may call this murder, but this is war, it's ugly and evil no matter what angle you're looking at. It's funny how we sit here comfortably on our arses, typing away, posting messages while we critize people killing each other thousands of miles away. :( |
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| st0ka. |
apology accepted...we all got carried away...besides were not here to have flame wars...
MAKE PEACE NOT LOVE |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjSway
A 30mm automatic Boeing M230 Chain Gun, designed to penetrate armor plating. |
Surprise surprise when you start critising an american they start going on about how good their toys are (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation).
And the fact that you never saw the whole movie speaks volumes.
The cut one just shows the "RGP" then all the "cool" bits where people get killed.
The full one shows the pipe a tractor pulling up and people trying to fix it.
So lets put it this way do you see an unarmed person ingured rolling about on the ground as a legit target? No? Either does international law. |
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| DjSway |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
Surprise surprise when you start critising an american they start going on about how good their toys are (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation).
And the fact that you never saw the whole movie speaks volumes.
The cut one just shows the "RGP" then all the "cool" bits where people get killed.
The full one shows the pipe a tractor pulling up and people trying to fix it.
So lets put it this way do you see an unarmed person ingured rolling about on the ground as a legit target? No? Either does international law. |
Surprise, surprise, when you start critising a anti-american they start going on about how they take every word said and take them out of context. (well atleast the types like you, sorry for the genralisation).
A) I mentioned the ammunition type because I was referring to the wounds the iraqi was suffering, which in this case unfortunately most likely life ending.
b) Seeing the full video doesn't mean my comments about it have no merits. Again, if you read carefully, I don't preach killing but it is part of war. I could easily say, the video of the American's beheading was a crime.
C) Internationla laws are often loss in war, atrocities have been done by both sides. |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | | Originally posted by DjSway C) Internationla laws are often loss in war, atrocities have been done by both sides. |
See thats what I'm saying! You recon it's "inevitable" for atrocities to happen?
Well what I am saying is that if they do happen then the perp has to be taken to justice (that is the way law works).
Whats the point of liberating a place to pass on your values when you don't apply thouse values yourself (sticking to the law)?
Hence as I said the pilots should be treated as criminals. Even if it was a mistake (which it would need to have been a muscle twitch on the trigger to be) it would still be gross negligence. >>>LIKE HERE<<< if you ask me there should be more pilots charged for all the friendly and civillian fire incidents.
Also I never took you out of context. |
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| DjSway |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
See thats what I'm saying! You recon it's "inevitable" for atrocities to happen?
Well what I am saying is that if they do happen then the perp has to be taken to justice (that is the way law works).
Whats the point of liberating a place to pass on your values when you don't apply thouse values yourself (sticking to the law)?
Hence as I said the pilots should be treated as criminals. Even if it was a mistake (which it would need to have been a muscle twitch on the trigger to be) it would still be gross negligence. >>>LIKE HERE<<< if you ask me there should be more pilots charged for all the friendly and civillian fire incidents.
Also I never took you out of context. |
So... should the Iraqis who bomb police stations and US camps be taken to court also? Mind you they accomplished killing more civilians in their "liberation bombings" then their intended targets. |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjSway
So... should the Iraqis who bomb police stations and US camps be taken to court also? Mind you they accomplished killing more civilians in their "liberation bombings" then their intended targets. |
Emmm well what would you do with them? If you caught one unarmed? Of course they would goto court..... |
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| DjSway |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
Emmm well what would you do with them? If you caught one unarmed? Of course they would goto court..... |
Ya but I think your missing my point here, these iraqis who bomb for so called "liberation" also kill at the same time their own people, children included! Why dont you get mad at them? This is again, as I said the ugly face of war, do they follow internation laws? |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjSway
Ya but I think your missing my point here, these iraqis who bomb for so called "liberation" also kill at the same time their own people, children included! Why dont you get mad at them? This is again, as I said the ugly face of war, do they follow internation laws? |
I don't like them either. They will have international law applied to them. And what a great way to make it ok.... they are doing bad stuff so we can. Someone else doing wrong doesn't mean you can. |
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| Spartan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arg
Actually the reason was to remove a global threat and any mass destruction weapons within the area; but thanks for playing anyway. Funny how the focus suddenly went from prevention of war to "peace" when they figured out there were no mass destruction weapons, eh? |
The goal was to bring down Saddam Hussein as well as any weapons of mass destruction. Those who Saddam threatened the most were his own people, who were often the victims of his Chemical Weapons program. The videos you should be watching are the ones of the Iraqi people cheering as American soldiers took down the statue of Saddam. Those Iraqi's, the educated and non-religious extremests, obviously wanted us there. The Iraqi's still fighting are shooting their own police officers, and bombing their own towns. It surprises me how much sympathy they are drawing here. |
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| DjSway |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
I don't like them either. They will have international law applied to them. And what a great way to make it ok.... they are doing bad stuff so we can. Someone else doing wrong doesn't mean you can. |
Again, you're taking me out of context, when did I say that they can?
I'm talking about how war has its ugly face and laws are not always followed. Do you really think that these iraqis will have international laws applied to them? :haha: |
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