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Question for the pro-Palestinians... (pg. 3)
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| Yoepus |
And thats not all!!! More conspiracy awaits those without metal tin hats at http://www.larouchepub.com. All yours for just the low low price of ungodly time.
Buy today! |
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| JM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
NO worries, if the americans vote properly this time, the US will rid the terrorists currently in office. |
oh cmon now thats as bad as saying you support al-qaida. given your background, i wouldnt doubt it.
>JM< |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by JM
oh cmon now thats as bad as saying you support al-qaida. given your background, i wouldnt doubt it.
>JM< |
Poor misinformed boy... in case you didnt know little one... your government trained and aided al-quaeda's leader OSAMA. to me.. all need to be shot dead in the head. That would be so good.
And dont get into backgrounds.
P.S Long live Serbia |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Poor misinformed boy... in case you didnt know little one... your government trained and aided al-quaeda's leader OSAMA. to me.. all need to be shot dead in the head. That would be so good.
And dont get into backgrounds.
P.S Long live Serbia |
Damn. When a 13 year old sacks up and starts calling people "Little One" you'd better get out of his way!!!:haha: |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Damn. When a 13 year old sacks up and starts calling people "Little One" you'd better get out of his way!!!:haha: |
YOU'RE SOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAYY!!!!!!!!!! |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
And thats not all!!! More conspiracy awaits those without metal tin hats at http://www.larouchepub.com. All yours for just the low low price of ungodly time.
Buy today! |
You left out Jerusalem Post, that must be the spot for the guys in tin hats as well.
But I am going to give you the benefit of doubt:
Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel (United Press International Purveyors of the tin hatted people online link here
| quote: | Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel
By Richard Sale
UPI Terrorism Correspondent
Published 6/18/2002 8:13 PM
In the wake of a suicide bomb attack Tuesday on a crowded Jerusalem city bus that killed 19 people and wounded at least 70 more, the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, took credit for the blast.
Israeli officials called it the deadliest attack in Jerusalem in six years.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon immediately vowed to fight "Palestinian terror" and summoned his cabinet to decide on a military response to the organization that Sharon had once described as "the deadliest terrorist group that we have ever had to face."
Active in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It is has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.
But Sharon left something out.
Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.
Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.
Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.
According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were "weak and dormant" until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.
After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da'wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.
"Social influence grew into political influence," first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.
According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.
According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.
What took Israeli leaders by surprise was the way the Islamic movements began to surge after the Iranian revolution, after armed resistance to Israel sprang up in southern Lebanon vis-à-vis the Hezbollah, backed by Iran, these sources said.
"Nothing provides the energy for imitation as much as success," commented one administration expert.
A further factor of Hamas' growth was the fact the PLO moved its base of operations to Beirut in the '80s, leaving the Islamic organization to grow in influence in the Occupied Territories "as the court of last resort," he said.
When the intifada began, Israeli leadership was surprised when Islamic groups began to surge in membership and strength. Hamas immediately grew in numbers and violence. The group had always embraced the doctrine of armed struggle, but the doctrine had not been practiced and Islamic groups had not been subjected to suppression the way groups like Fatah had been, according to U.S. government officials.
But with the triumph of the Khomeini revolution in Iran, with the birth of Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorism in Lebanon, Hamas began to gain in strength in Gaza and then in the West Bank, relying on terror to resist the Israeli occupation.
Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One U.S. intelligence source who asked not to be named said that not only was Hamas being funded as a "counterweight" to the PLO, Israeli aid had another purpose: "To help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists."
In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could only listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who "were dangerous hard-liners," the official said.
In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acquiesce in its very existence.
But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.
"Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with," he said.
All of which disgusts some former U.S. intelligence officials.
"The thing wrong with so many Israeli operations is that they try to be too sexy," said former CIA official Vincent Cannestraro.
According to former State Department counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson, "the Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism."
"The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer."
"They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it," he said.
Aid to Hamas may have looked clever, "but it was hardly designed to help smooth the waters," he said. "An operation like that gives weight to President George Bush's remark about there being a crisis in education."
Cordesman said that a similar attempt by Egyptian intelligence to fund Egypt's fundamentalists had also come to grief because of "misreading of the complexities."
An Israeli defense official was asked if Israel had given aid to Hamas said, "I am not able to answer that question. I was in Lebanon commanding a unit at the time, besides it is not my field of interest."
Asked to confirm a report by U.S. officials that Brig. Gen. Yithaq Segev, the military governor of Gaza, had told U.S. officials he had helped fund "Islamic movements as a counterweight to the PLO and communists," the official said he could confirm only that he believed Segev had served back in 1986.
The Israeli Embassy press office referred UPI to its Web site when asked to comment.
Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International
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Kiss of death? Jerusalem Post online (registration needed for this article) purveyors of tin hatted people article here
| quote: | Jan. 22, 2004 12:00
Kiss of death?
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Hamas's rising popularity has PA officials wondering whether Arafat's failure to quash the organization will lead to his own demise
As Yasser Arafat and the PLO leaders were packing their bags and getting ready to move from Tunis to the Gaza Strip in 1994, the leaders of Hamas held an urgent meeting in Gaza City to discuss the repercussions of the Oslo Accords and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority.
Mahmoud Zahar, one of the top Hamas leaders who attended the meeting, recalls that participants agreed on the need to avoid a confrontation with Arafat and his newly established security forces.
"We stressed that civil war is a red line that should never be crossed because every drop of Palestinian blood is sacred," says Zahar.
Hamas knew already back then that it would lose points on the Palestinian street if it initiated a confrontation with the newly established PA government. Although it strongly opposed the Oslo Accords, Hamas's strategy was to sit on the fence and let the people see for themselves that the agreement would not work.
Another Hamas official, who asked not to be named, said some of his colleagues expressed concern that Arafat, with the backing of the international community and the Palestinian public, would try to eliminate the Islamic movement and all Palestinian opposition factions.
"It was clear that the US, Israel, and the Europeans would give Arafat billions of dollars so that he could fight Hamas and look after Israel's security," said the official. "This was the main condition for allowing him and the PLO to come to the West Bank and Gaza Strip."
But since then the relationship between Hamas and Arafat has been complex and tense. Over the past decade, Arafat's policy has been to use Hamas and Islamic Jihad as an excuse for milking millions of dollars from the international community under the pretext of fighting terror. But despite the huge funds allocated to the PA security forces, Arafat prevented the complete destruction of Hamas, although there were times when he thought that the movement was planning to topple him.
Even before he arrived in Gaza City, Arafat considered Hamas to be a serious challenge to his one-man authority. Needless to say, Arafat is extremely intolerant when it comes to anyone challenging his power, even when the threat is from his staunchest loyalists. In an attempt to delegitimize Hamas in the eyes of the Palestinians, Arafat went as far as claiming that the movement was created with the help of Israel in order to undermine the PLO. Arafat aides repeatedly argued that his intention was not to destroy Hamas, but to weaken it and turn it into a political party with no military wing.
IN A 1996 interview with the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, Arafat said, "We are doing everything possible to stop the violence. But Hamas is a creature of Israel which, at the time of [former] Prime Minister [Yitzhak] Shamir gave them money and more than 700 institutions, among them schools, universities and mosques. Even [former Israeli prime minister Yitzhak] Rabin ended up admitting it, when I charged him with it, in the presence of [Egyptian President Hosni] Mubarak."
Arafat repeated his charges in another interview with the Italian newspaper L'Espresso: "Hamas was constituted with the support of Israel. The aim was to create an organization antagonistic to the PLO. They [Hamas] received financing and training from Israel. They have continued to benefit from permits and authorizations, while we have been limited, even [for permits] to build a tomato factory. Rabin himself defined it as a fatal error. Some collaborators with Israel are involved in these [terrorist] attacks. We have the proof, and we are placing it at the disposal of the Italian government."
(continues online)
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| Flotser |
| 3 pages .... and still no Pro-Palestinian has given George an answer. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
3 pages .... and still no Pro-Palestinian has given George an answer. |
I think the answer is: Getting rid of Arafat and installing some quality leadership--leadership that actually promotes a better way of life for all. Establishing friendlier relations with other nations, particularly westerners and Isaelis.
Do I get a cookie now? |
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| JM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
And dont get into backgrounds.
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why not get into backgrounds. your background has everything to do with your pro-terrorist views, hence probably a good starting point for a lot of potential debate.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
When a 13 year old sacks up and starts calling people "Little One" you'd better get out of his way!!!:haha: |
i guess they really do start training terrorists at an early age.
>JM< |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by JM
why not get into backgrounds. your background has everything to do with your pro-terrorist views, hence probably a good starting point for a lot of potential debate.
i guess they really do start training terrorists at an early age.
>JM< |
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:stfu NOOB |
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| JM |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:stfu NOOB |
you too just finish al-qaida training camp?
>JM< |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by JM
you too just finish al-qaida training camp?
>JM< |
:rolleyes: u really wanna get banned kid dont ya? |
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