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Politics & John Kerry (pg. 3)
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| djdustx |
well said
*claps*
Sebastiano |
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| charmscars |
| quote: | Originally posted by discojoe
I would say im pretty center thinking. I am a business student and believe in a strong business and low tax environment (not however when it means you run a 500 billon dollar deficit :rolleyes: ) But i also believe in pro-action vs reaction ( I believe higher quality of life in scandanavia/ most of canada can in part be attributed to it) I grew up in a city not a farm so alot of my values come from the 20th century. I think drugs, violent video games and pornography should be legal and i certainly dont think its anyones god given right to own a gun. (anyone who thinks its morally wrong to see a naked body in a TV show or magazine but has a gun stored in a closet next to their childrens bedroom, is pretty ed up in my opinion).
well i understand the logic of voting for someone because their party subscribes to the same values you do. I guess i have always been a liberal voter as they seem to hold similar moderate values. But to what point do you keep voting for a party or person just because of some traditional symetric values? I think unconditional support for a candidate or party is extremely dangerous and destructive, regardless of your political inclination.
Jayx1 I have read alot of your political posts and i think to a great extent you are right about the situation of the current liberal government. They have been in power for 10 years. The same leaders, the same powerful positions for 10 years. We have all read George Orwell, we all know what happens when people get ahold of power. It happens to everyone, whether you are right wing or left wing it happens when you get into power. Anyone who gets into a situation of unchecked, unconditional power is going to abuse it in some way. Whether you offer a job to a family member or take an opportunity to raise your salary for all your hard work. And of course you work hard why wouldnt you deserve a little extra money? (i didnt read much of the details of the scandal but im surprised it wasnt worse)
Yes it definitely was a time for change in the Canadian government and if i were home i would have voted conservative (and told some left wing family to vote ndp) Just as it was time for mike harris to go here in ontario. The province simply couldnt support the unsustainable economic environment he created. Power needs checking and the advantage of democracy is that you have a way to do it.
But i do have one question for you Jayx1. Would you have acted the same way at the end of the Mulroney regime? Would you have started countless threads in these forums begging people to vote the conservative bums out? Except for a few bright spots (NAFTA being one of them) his government was an utter failure. Would you be in here preaching the same things if the harper government went through the same scandals. If not if you really can't say you would, you're just as much a puppet as the diehard liberal supporters. You suffer from the same vice they do. And it will happen too. There will be a scandal in the next conservative government (conservative people are people too and as with all people, power corrupts) just think about your reaction when it happens.
Those are my political beliefs. I really think partisan politics and the two party system has alot of dangers. People associate themelves with a party and follow it too far. It makes it too easy to blindfold people. Nowhere can this be seen more than in the United States. I see people cheering a party like it was a football team. I cringe i cringe so much. That attitude is so destructive for a country and creates an environment where people are so easily manipulated. Reading through the political debates forum and i just cant believe the things i read on there. People defending lies, deceits, vice and failings of politicians just because they are part of the party they cheer for.
My thoughts on Bush and Kerry. Bush has been an awful, awful president. There is no mistaking it. To know that you are smarter than a man leading 280 million people is scary. To have a man who invents words like misunderestimate and exemplarary, a man who believes that man and fish can coexist peacefully, a man who called the president of pakistan 'mushy', a man who thinks there ought to be limits to freedom, and a man who thought the canadian prime minister's name was Jean Poutine (to his defence though so did Al Gore) leading the most powerful country in the world is utterly frightening. This man is not fit to lead any country, any organization or any family. Everyone, even the most die hard conservatives will admit the real reason he is where he is. This man is retarded, and under no circumstances should be leading a country.
Americans, ask yourselves this: Why is my deficit at 500 billion dollars this year. Why has foreign hatred for my country never in its history been so strong. Well the reason is you voted for a man who thinks man and fish can coexist peacefully. And you know what you'll probably vote for him again, because you think its your god given right to own a gun and so does he. YYEEEE HAAAAAAWWWW God bless America!
Thats it im out for now.. /end rant. Wonder if anyone will read this. |
To me, the protection of libertarian values is too important for me to consider the conservatives. I'm not 100% for less funding and tax cuts, a more laissez-faire economic vision etc, but I could live w/ it if I could be sure that individual freedoms could be protected. If there was a government that had a very 'right' economic perspective but very strongly believed in the women's right to chose, suppoerted gay marriage etc. then I would be more inclined to consider them. |
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| Jayx1 |
unofrtunately the canadian media completely misrepresented the conservative party based on what 2 or 3 of the 10s of thousands of members of that party said. Meanwhile there were countless documented qoutes of liberals saying the same things against gay marriage that never got reported at all.
And not to sound harsh but this wasnt even on my radar screen. My concerns were taxes, medicare and how we were going to fix the mess we have gotten ourselves into in the last 30 years with our current system.
But i agree charmscars. Im for a conservative government with liberal values. Not NDP liberal as in quota hiring and funding gay- asian-handicapped-francophone art museums etc LOL... but as in relaxing all the stupid laws we have such as the pot laws, drinking laws, and allowing gays to marry. Hey, if they arent hurting anyone why should i care right? Just dont make me pay for it thats all. |
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| charmscars |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
unofrtunately the canadian media completely misrepresented the conservative party based on what 2 or 3 of the 10s of thousands of members of that party said. Meanwhile there were countless documented qoutes of liberals saying the same things against gay marriage that never got reported at all.
And not to sound harsh but this wasnt even on my radar screen. My concerns were taxes, medicare and how we were going to fix the mess we have gotten ourselves into in the last 30 years with our current system.
But i agree charmscars. Im for a conservative government with liberal values. Not NDP liberal as in quota hiring and funding gay- asian-handicapped-francophone art museums etc LOL... but as in relaxing all the stupid laws we have such as the pot laws, drinking laws, and allowing gays to marry. Hey, if they arent hurting anyone why should i care right? Just dont make me pay for it thats all. |
well, we all have differnet issues that are important to us. I happy to see that there is politcal discourse taking place- i may not agree w/ other ppl's politics but to see more and more ppl getting intersted in politics is always a good thing. Seeing politically apathetic canadians is what i find most upsetting. |
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| Jayx1 |
this is for sebastiano who voted for the NDP:
here is my problem with the NDP.
They consider anyone making over 50 G to be rich. Therefor they want to tax the hell out of them and give it to people who dont work. Sorry but 50 G a year is AVERAGE salary these days. All i ever see from the NDP are millions of great ideas but im always finding myself asking how they are going to pay for it. If money grew on trees id vote NDP. Sadly it doesnt. My taxes are already high enough as it is and if we knew even half the waste that goes on in government wed be disgusted. This is why i voted conservative. I am a firm believer that it is possible to get the same services and even better for LESS taxes than what we pay today. But, we have to reform the system and clean up the waste. The only person talking in this language was stephen harper. Too bad the media misrepresented him |
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| discojoe |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
unofrtunately the canadian media completely misrepresented the conservative party based on what 2 or 3 of the 10s of thousands of members of that party said. Meanwhile there were countless documented qoutes of liberals saying the same things against gay marriage that never got reported at all.
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thats an interesting point. never really thought of that but now that you point it out. anytime a conservative member mentions the word Gay its front page news and probably in most cases blown way out of proportion here. the same thing when they go to church or happen to mention god
anyway Charmscars Im not saying you made the wrong decision in voting the way you did. Im just pointing out the possible dangers in the way our political system is organized. The possible dangers of the way you, Jay, even myself and just about everyone naturally tend to associate ourselves with parties. |
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| Jayx1 |
| since ive started voted ive always voted conservative but its because ive been happy with what they are doing or what they believe in. But believe me when i say that id be the first to vote differently if they ever were a disaster as they were in 1993 under mulroney. Sadly though, chretien and by extension, martin made mulroney look like a saint. |
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| discojoe |
| Thats my take on the NDP too. I see then as generally good hearted people. I get a real 'human' feeling from them which i think is lacking in the others. I like their values but i do find them generally very naive and irresponsible when it comes to governing. |
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| Jayx1 |
| The conservatives believe in reforming the waste and paying down the debt (which takes 1/4 of all our taxes just to service) After we pay the debt and clean up the waste we will have more money than we know what to do with. Did you know that alberta (under a conservative government) just paid back every single cent of its provincial debt last month? Do you know what the premier said after that? He announced massive increases in health care spending along with a tax cut. We are already seeing the results in alberta of what harris tried to do in ontario. |
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| discojoe |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Sadly though, chretien and by extension, martin made mulroney look like a saint. |
I was pretty young when mulroney was in power and didnt really care much but I think most people would disagree with you. I dont know much in the ways of scandals, but even looking strictly at economic policies, Martin has been FAR more successful. Even now after the boom they have been far more responsible. I think they did it the right way. Keep the taxes high if you must and cut down the debt. (not to mention the deficit they completely turned around without really raising taxes). Interest on 600 billion debt for a country whose GDP is 900 billion can be can be very suffocating. |
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| Jayx1 |
| im not saying i liked mulroney... im just saying he was half the crook that chretien turned out to be. |
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| discojoe |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
The conservatives believe in reforming the waste and paying down the debt |
1. This is exactly what the conservatives didnt do last time they were elected. I dont know the exact figures. But the last conservative guvernment spent more than they brought in every year they were in power. When they left government i believe the country's debt had doubled. But they used the same message you just wrote to campaign themselves to power.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Did you know that alberta (under a conservative government) just paid back every single cent of its provincial debt last month? Do you know what the premier said after that? He announced massive increases in health care spending along with a tax cut. We are already seeing the results in |
2. Alberta is in a VERY different situation than most of the other provinces. Alberta is sitting on a huge oil field and has always been far richer because of it. Sure they have a responsible government i agree, but please dont fool yourself into thinking it was the only reason for their current good fortune. If you do you'll have to give Clinton and Chretien all of the credit for the favourable economic times during their offices.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
We are already seeing the results in alberta of what harris tried to do in ontario. |
3. Harris left office (mere months before he would have had to face the music and lose the election. pretty ing cowardly if you ask me) with a 5 billion dollar deficit. How is that similar to what you mentioned in Alberta? |
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