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Difference (pg. 3)
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Radagast
He never needed to visit here. My goal? My goal is to learn as much as I can about EDM. |
All I'm trying to point out is that your adoption of his attitude and language (such as "trancecracker") is doing no productive service to this community.
It takes a lot more integrity and thought to be oneself and find one's own opinions than to imitate those of another.
It would be different if I thought you honestly came to your conclusions on electronic music by yourself. But I'm much more inclined to believe that you decided to take the Word of Ishkur. |
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| Radagast |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
All I'm trying to point out is that your adoption of his attitude and language (such as "trancecracker") is doing no productive service to this community.
It takes a lot more integrity and thought to be oneself and find one's own opinions than to imitate those of another.
It would be different if I thought you honestly came to your conclusions on electronic music by yourself. But I'm much more inclined to believe that you decided to take the Word of Ishkur. |
He coined the term "McTrance", yet do you come on to every person here that uses "McProg" for imitating Ishkur? I didn't think so. Maybe I should change a syllable. tranceidiot? trancemoron? trancechips? Does it matter?
In the world of music EDM is very ambiguous, and that's saying a lot. Most people with guides on the internet or even authors who write books on EDM don't have it all in the correct perspective. No matter what conclusion I come to, it will come from the word of someone. One author will call Jam & Spoon Techno, another will call them Trance. Why I like Ishkur's opinion? To answer that I ask myself another question. Why don't I love epic trance anymore? Why can I not stand it? His is the best answer I have seen so far. If I had taste I wouldn't have liked it in the first place.
You know, I hated Ishkur as much as the next trancehead mere months ago. Just under a year ago now I believe. |
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| aspergian |
It's *very* important to read the disclaimers of Ishkur's Guide. It helps to have a sense of humor too, and realize that Ish has never said that this is the fanatical, canonical, 100%-definitive-and-set-in-diamond-bling-bling book of EDM. Yes, I disagree with some of the classifications, and I have no clue in the blue why in the blazing saddles that FAKE "Robert Miles" imitation track -- "Rain" -- is still in there (!?!). But let's consider this:
At this point, there is not a comprehensive alternative to Ishkur's, neatly packaged with all the sights AND sounds you'd expect. His guide is a whole lot more edutational than griping around. So it's useful as it stands. Bottom line: it's a lot of fun, and isn't that what the music's about? We ain't classical music snobs -- well, I used to be, but that's another story. No doubt down the line there will be a v3.0 with 1,002 more additions, but until that time, this EDM Guide is what exists for us today.
Each key artist has a personal take on a genre or genres (or style or substyles), and even among songs, they bring out different nuances, shades, textures, and soforth. I consider what is true to be for the DJs and producers to be similarly true for the listener in that a musical experience is unique and what is shared of music between human beings is relative, not absolute:
Thus, go forth, enjoy the music, and find your own personal truths.
P.S. Big LOL on the drum 'n' bass descriptions... yeah, I like to say DnB is basically hip-hop sped up 2x. That, and trance is house with arpeggios layered on it like a club sandwich (pun?) with all the extra trimmings. And breaks? Heck, that's bastard house, with the kicks and snares shuffled like a deck of cards including the jokers. Oh yeahhh. :haha: |
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| Radagast |
Just look at Ishkur's Guide to Rave Culture, all the genres are basically House.(YES, I KNOW IT'S A JOKE) ;)
No discovering EDM isn't about personal truths. No it isn't about looking inside myself. It's just music ffs. IMO. |
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| dj_lane |
in my opinion, not only is music classified by *Beats Per Minute, but also by sound, if music was classified only by beats per minute it would be terrible, if i take a trance tune make it +40 (around 160-180) does that make it hardcore? in a sense yes, but no, its still trance, as in the sound is trance, so when you listen to a song, the sound is alike the bpm, it seems like in house there always some phrase getting repeated, if you were to have something like that in trance it just wouldnt fit, becuase trance is different
its very hard to describe in words what a sound or song sounds like |
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| Radagast |
| It's only hard to describe if you have no idea what you're talking about. Take some musical training and come back to explain. I should take my own advice. |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Radagast
You know, I hated Ishkur as much as the next trancehead mere months ago. Just under a year ago now I believe. |
That's what bothers me the most.
You're framing it as a hate/love duality. Why? It certainly doesn't have to be one or the other. Both extremes do nothing but blind free thought. I disagree with Ishkur on a number of points, but I respect him and certainly do not hate him.
One should always be cautious of rapid changes in opinion from others. Sudden 'conversion' and devotion to some system of thought is a red flag that reason and individuality have been thrown out the window. It's always easier to have faith in what someone else says than to actually work through and consider the details yourself. |
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| Radagast |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
That's what bothers me the most.
You're framing it as a hate/love duality. Why? It certainly doesn't have to be one or the other. Both extremes do nothing but blind free thought. I disagree with Ishkur on a number of points, but I respect him and certainly do not hate him.
One should always be cautious of rapid changes in opinion from others. Sudden 'conversion' and devotion to some system of thought is a red flag that reason and individuality have been thrown out the window. It's always easier to have faith in what someone else says than to actually work through and consider the details yourself. |
Thanks for the expert psychoanalysis Dr. Phil, but I think you're bothering yourself my man. I never said I loved Ishkur. I just agree with what he says about Trance because it makes sense to me. As soon as what happened with me and Epic Trance happens with me and say..."Classic" Trance (or pretty much any other form of Trance) or someone gives me a better explanation, i'll reconsider what he says about it. As far as anything else he says goes I don't really pay much attention to it. I haven't been into those other things long enough ON MY OWN to feel comfortable with believing or even considering anyone elses opinions about them. Except for the < 20 tracks/60 minutes = not DJing and that turntablists are the only real DJ's, which are both really common sense ideas if you know what you're talking about.
I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. Or even if it relates to me in any way. I probably thought about it more than anyone once the day came when I just found all forms of Epic/Anthem Trance unbearable. I even made a thread about it here and was flamed by all the ignorants. And I say again, after looking around and thinking it out, asking others, Ishkurs explanation makes the most sense to me.
In the end I think you would agree that it's all for the better. Whereas before I restrained my views to one small subgenre to the omission of all others, now I only omit one small subgenre with the inclusion of all others. In the end i'm in a more open, well-rounded, and generally better position now than I was before. You know what people? The more I think about it the more I wonder if this new openness does more good than bad. You wouldn't believe the monumental task I now have ahead of me to acquire works from practically every genre of EDM from 1960 to present. At least before I was comfortably safe within my pocket of fake Trance, and even then getting all the albums I wanted/needed would have taken me years. OY!
And by the way, good job on hinging to the one thing I said that you could counter while ignoring everything I typed before it that pretty much negated your counter to what you quoted from me.
What a nice thread hijack. Uh oh someone else used the phrase thread hijack before me, I must be a hack. But I guess it's no harm since I doubt that the threadstarter (there's another one) will get any more info than she has already.
I should go to bed and stop editing this post. It's likely most of what i'm typing makes as much sense as if I had done it just after smoking five joints and downing a flask of whiskey. I lost count of how many times I used the letter I here. Sleepy time good good. |
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| albertoR |
| quote: | Originally posted by tribu
Breaks:
Artists: Momu, dislodged, Lo-Step, Digital Witchcraft
DJs: Hybrid, Moshic, and Digital Witchcraft
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I would consider moshic as dark, deep progressive house..i have never heard him spin breaks, unless he started recently which i doubt. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
House: Take an ordinary song and put it in dance instruments. Basically. Tends to be quite funky, prone to use live instruments, or samples of them.
Trance: Take one main musical idea and build the track up to it, with a breakdown to announce it. Basically. Tends to be very high-tech production wise, heavy use of synths and focus on build and release.
Techno: Take a good bassline and rhythm section and build a track from it. Basically. Tends to have little or no melody, very defined percussion and hardly ever uses high notes or live instruments.
Hardcore: Take some very strong (usually cheesy) melodies and work them into a sequence of fast breaks and sections. Basically. Tends to be very fast with an emphasis on speed over subtlety.
Ambient: Take a load of synth spheres and sound effects and work them togethor into one big collage. Basically. Any relaxing music with little emphasis on percussion can be ambient though.
Electronica: Take some very good short samples (often from other people's work) and build them into loops. Basically. This refers to types of music like big-beat and others that really doesn't have it's own genre name, so I'll use that one. |
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| mndeg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Hmmm interesting... I wouldn't be 100% sure if this is accurate though.
Under Epic Trance there is "Castles in the Sky" By Ian Van Dahl. Would you people consider Ian Van Dahl trance?
That tune however is one of my old time faves, I just wouldn't have thought it to be Trance, but more Techno.
So0o0o0o confusing! |
haha.
haha |
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