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Swift Change of Heart
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| xKaoSx |
AUGUST 20--The broadside against John Kerry's war record is particularly bizarre in light of what one of the leading bomb throwers had to say about the Democrat while both served in Vietnam. George Elliott, a key member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth who appears in the anti-Kerry group's virulent TV commercial, recommended Kerry for a Bronze Star in 1969. In the below Navy report, Elliott, a lieutenant commander, recounts how Kerry was "highly courageous in the face of enemy fire" during a fight on the Bay Hap river in March 1969. During that skirmish, Elliott noted, Kerry dodged sniper fire to save a colleague who was knocked overboard when a mine detonated. In a March 1969 evaluation, Elliott reported that Kerry was involved in "several enemy initiated fire fights" and "exhibited all of the traits desired of an officer in a combat environment." A December 1969 fitness report was equally laudatory, with Elliott giving Kerry the highest possible grade available ("Is not exceeded") in most categories, including loyalty and moral courage. (5 pages)
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archiv...1.html?link=eaf |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by xKaoSx
AUGUST 20--The broadside against John Kerry's war record is particularly bizarre in light of what one of the leading bomb throwers had to say about the Democrat while both served in Vietnam. |
Oh come on, like Kerry doesn't know anything about flip-flopping
:haha: |
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| xKaoSx |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Oh come on, like Kerry doesn't know anything about flip-flopping
:haha: |
Maybe they actually work for Kerry and this was the intent all along to make it look like Bush was slinging.
:conf: |
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| ResonantDrag |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Oh come on, like Kerry doesn't know anything about flip-flopping
:haha: |
oh please:rolleyes:
can you think of a democratic frontrunner that hasn't been called a flip-flopper by the republicans in recent history?
it's their favorite insult. well that and "liberal"
the great thing about the information age is that we have the ability to locate refutions on foundationless right wing claims rather quickly... too bad that their dying breed hasn't attracted enough freethinking youth smart enough to figure out that the misinformation should be dished out later in the campaign. the poor bastards peaked too early:stongue: |
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| xKaoSx |
would be an interesting stat to see percentage wise
according to belief who owns computers and who has internet access.
Im pretty sure the lefties probably own more computers and have a higher percentage of internet access. |
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| NeoPhono |
I know it's in its early stages of development, but drudge report has a budding story that Kerry's first purple heart was from self-inflicted wounds. Apparently his own journal backs the story. It may be "insignificant," but if this is true, I believe it's going to be a field day for the republicans. The issues with his credibility and Vietnam will be much more tangible.
| quote: | Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...
Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...
In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'... Developing...
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
I know it's in its early stages of development, but drudge report has a budding story that Kerry's first purple heart was from self-inflicted wounds. Apparently his own journal backs the story. It may be "insignificant," but if this is true, I believe it's going to be a field day for the republicans. The issues with his credibility and Vietnam will be much more tangible. |
"Kerry has said he was wounded by a piece of shrapnel as he and his crew engaged Vietcong fleeing on a beach. Kerry has said he was uncertain where the shrapnel came from."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...veterans05.html
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SEC. 571. PURPLE HEART TO BE AWARDED ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE ARMED FORCES.
(a) IN GENERAL.--(1) Chapter 57 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:
"§ 1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces
"The decoration known as the Purple Heart (authorized to be awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016) may only be awarded to a person who is a member of the armed forces at the time the person is killed or wounded under circumstances otherwise qualifying that person for award of the Purple Heart.".
(2) The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:
"1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces.".
(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.--Section 1131 of title 10, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall apply with respect to persons who are killed or wounded after the end of the 180-day period beginning on (18 Nov 1997) the date of the enactment of this Act.
2-8. Purple Heart
The Purple Heart was established by General George Washington, at Newburgh, New York, on 7 August 1782, during the Revolutionary War. It was reestablished by the President of the United States per War Department General Orders 3, 1932 and is currently awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016, 25 April 1962, Executive Order 12464, 23 February 1984 and Public Law 98-525, 19 October 1984.
a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded
(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.
(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.
(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.
(S) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.
(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.
(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.
b. While clearly an individual decoration, the Purple Heart differs from all other decorations in that an individual is not "recommended" for the decoration; rather he or she is entitled to it upon meeting specific criteria.
(1) A Purple Heart is authorized for the first wound suffered under conditions indicated above, but for each subsequent award an Oak Leaf Cluster will be awarded to be worn on the medal or ribbon. Not more than one award will be made for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant or from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent.
(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.
(3) When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award.
(4) Examples of enemy-related injuries which clearly justify award of the Purple Heart are as follows:
(a) Injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action.
(b) Injury caused by enemy placed mine or trap.
(c) Injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological or nuclear agent.
(d) Injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire.
(e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.
(5) Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows:
(a) Frostbite or trench foot injuries.
(b) Heat stroke.
(c) Food poisoning not caused by enemy agents.
(d) Chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy.
(e) Battle fatigue.
(f) Disease not directly caused by enemy agents.
(g) Accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action.
(h) Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.
(i) Post traumatic stress disorders.
(j) Jump injuries not caused by enemy action.
(6) It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration, the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. Note the following examples:
(a) In case such as an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made.
(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.
(c) Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence; for example, driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence.
c. A Purple Heart will be issued to the next of kin of each person entitled to a posthumous award. Issue will be made automatically by the Commanding General, PERSCOM, upon receiving a report of death indicating entitlement.
d. Upon written application to Commander, ARPERCEN, ATIN.- DAR-P-VSEA, 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, MO 63132-5200, award may be made to any member of the Army, who during World War 1, was awarded a Meritorious Service Citation Certificate signed by the Commander in Chief, American Expeditionary Forces, or who was authorized to wear wound chevrons. Posthumous awards to personnel who were killed or died of wounds after 5 April 1917 will be made to the appropriate next of kin upon application to the Commanding General, PERSCOM.
e. Any member of the Army who was awarded the Purple Heart for meritorious achievement or service, as opposed to wounds received in action, between 7 December 1941 and 22 September 1943, may apply for award of an appropriate decoration instead of the Purple Heart.
f. For those who became Prisoners of War after 25 April 1962, the Purple Heart will be awarded to individuals wounded while prisoners of foreign forces, upon submission by the individual to the Department of the U.S. Army of an affidavit that is supported by a statement from a witness, if this is possible. Documentation and inquiries Should be directed to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPCPDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.
g. Any member of the U.S. Army who believes that he or she is eligible for the Purple Heart, but through unusual circumstances no award was made, may submit an application through military channels, to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC-PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. Application will include complete documentation, to include evidence of medical treatment, pertaining to the wound.
PUBLIC LAW 104-106 - FEB. 10, 1996
SEC. 621. AWARD OF PURPLE HEART TO PERSONS WOUNDED WHILE HELD AS PRISONERS OF WAR BEFORE APRIL 2G, 1962.
(a) AWARD OF PURPLE HEART.—For purposes of the award of the Purple Heart, the Secretary concerned (as defined in section 101 of title 10, United States Code) shall treat a former prisoner of war who was wounded before April 25, 1962, while held as a prisoner of war (or while being taken captive) in the same manner as a former prisoner of war who is wounded on or after that date while held as a prisoner of war (or while being taken captive).
(b) STANDARDS FOR AWARD.—An award of the Purple Heart under subsection (a) shall be made in accordance with the standards in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act for the award of the Purple Heart to persons wounded on or after April 25, 1962.
(C) ELIGIBLE FORMER PRISONERS OF WAR.—A person shall be considered to be a former prisoner of war for purposes of this section if the person is eligible for the prisoner-of-war meda1 under section 1128 of title 10, United States Code
http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm
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He didn't need to have been shot at for the purple heart to still retain legitimacy.
And to think that I thought that dems were grasping at straws trying to convict Bush over the whole awol thing .. |
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| NeoPhono |
| Occrider, I'm assuming that the "unfolding" story is something with different information than the article you posted from May of this year. I realize that this is a "drudge report" and it could disappear as quickly and as unsubstantiated as it appeared, but as I posted, it would change things if the wound was self-inflicted. I can understand fully getting a purple heart for friendly fire, but I would find it hard to believe the military hands out medals for self-inflicted wounds. Hopefully we'll get more information soon, especially since the site claims that his own campaign is backing these claims. |
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| Q5echo |
Washington Post is sticking to their substantiated story about how Kerry, Rasmussin, and some other guy blew up a 5 ton barrel of rice with a few hand grenades and during their flee Kerry got some rice grains in the buttocks. he then put himself in for the last purple heart for the effort even though he was totally fine.
i really don't give a damn but it's interesting to watch. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
Occrider, I'm assuming that the "unfolding" story is something with different information than the article you posted from May of this year. I realize that this is a "drudge report" and it could disappear as quickly and as unsubstantiated as it appeared, but as I posted, it would change things if the wound was self-inflicted. I can understand fully getting a purple heart for friendly fire, but I would find it hard to believe the military hands out medals for self-inflicted wounds. Hopefully we'll get more information soon, especially since the site claims that his own campaign is backing these claims. |
The first story was to provide background and provide legitmacy to rule 2-8 (1).
Scrolling down to rule 5, "(5) Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows:"
and going to line h we see:
| quote: |
Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.
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Therefore they do indeed give out purple hearts in the case of self-inflicted wounds. This is further corroborated by Navy personnel in charge of awarding medals:
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The award came from the Naval Support Facility in Saigon — issued without any evident formal protest at the time from Hibbard, Letson or other commanders. Neither the slightness of Kerry's wound nor its murky origins would have likely disqualified him, said Shelby Jean Kirk, a retired civilian director of the Bureau of Naval Operations awards branch.
The most critical element in an award decision was "action against the enemy." Conflicting battle accounts were not uncommon, and when Navy awards personnel could not make a clear determination, the serviceman often "got the benefit of the doubt," Kirk said.
"The fog of war forced the system to bend to interpretation," said former Navy Cmdr. David L. Riley, author of "Uncommon Valor," a history of the Navy's awards.
A review of injury reports from Kerry's boat units during his tour of duty confirms that pattern. Stacked in the Navy archives in Washington, the records show that in the last three months of Kerry's tour, 46 Swift boat personnel were wounded. Most were hurt by shrapnel, and all but five of the cases earned Purple Hearts.
Injury reports are missing from Kerry's first month — including his contested Dec. 2 wound. But at least two dozen of the 46 men who were wounded later suffered "light" or "minor" shrapnel injuries. In a similar number of cases, wounds could not be clearly traced to enemy fire.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...lines-frontpage
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So if you want to make an issue out of Kerry's purple heart,
A)take it up with the US military in charge of the rules and regulations of distributing said medals.
B)start taking offense to all those other vietnam vets who similarly were "undeserving" of their purple hearts. |
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| NeoPhono |
| If I had the power and weight, then I would take it up with the US military. Its pretty silly, in my opinion, that if you injure yourself you are awarded a medal no different than the medal given to those wounded by the enemy. I would think that if the story in the Washington Post proves true, blowing up a rice barrel with a grenade would fall under gross negligance. If Kerry has no problem raking Bush over the coals for his National Guard service record, I don't see why there should be a double standard when the "right" attempts to do the same with Kerry. The public has demanded Bush's service records, and even though his compliance was questionable, he made some measurable effort to comply. John Kerry could resolve this entire situation by releasing medical records and other information that he has on these events, but he continues not to do so. That to me is nearly the same as admitting fault. |
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