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Now they want to ban smoking in cars???? (pg. 5)
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| Jayx1 |
right.. and then they become spoiled brats who think they can always get what they want.
coddling doesnt work. classical conditioning does. You do something wrong and you get consequences. SIMPLE. |
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| MarkT |
respect is earned...not forced...that's fear.
yes, kids will always push their limits...but it's up to parents to set them. I didn't around not because my parents instilled fear in me...but because I respected them and didn't want to disappoint them.
it may sound cheesy...but I'm pretty pleased with my childhood and how I've turned out ;)
parenting does not equal discipline...that's all I'm saying. It's takes far more effort to be involved in your kid's life than it does to make them fear you. |
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| Jayx1 |
parenting absolutely involves discipline. If there is no incentive to not do something wrong, kids will do it. If you dont punish the kid what does that teach him? Sorry but dsicipline is FUNDAMENTAL in parenting. What you are telling me is scary and i understand why kids are the way they are today.
If i ever had a daughter and she whored herself at 12 id literally smack her. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
my point is that right or wrong they are REGULATING YOUR PERSONAL SPACE and that sets a dangerous precident. |
I agree with you on this one.
However, I don't see this ever coming to pass. It's just another article to get people blabbing away on message boards.
Smoking in the presence of children is horrible - but this isn't the way to crack down on it. Education is.
(if this has been said, sorry, I didn't read the thread.) |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
- but this isn't the way to crack down on it. Education is.
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Exactly my arguement regarding junk food in schools. |
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| Cal |
Jay, read up on JS Mill, a great thinker that promoted free speech, and what you're saying really reminds me of him (well, except that Mills didn't have nearly as many errors in reasoning).
In his discussion he claimed that all mankind had no right to silence one dissenter, no right of the majority telling the minority what to do or how to behave. No right at all except for one reason - that person causing harm to others.
I'm with Mill on this. You can smoke and hack plemh all over your car all you want when youre by yourself, but if in 10 years by some chance yours and my kid were carpooling to school and you were smoking behind the wheel inside your "personal space" I'd come after you to "regulate" your empty head with a baseball bat. |
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| Jayx1 |
or how about another solution..
dont allow the kid to go into that car?
oh but that would be too easy
we do things every day to harm others. Where does it stop? By your line of reasoning we shouldnt do anything relating to air pollution that potentially could harm others. |
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| Cal |
That's right we shouldn't. But there's a difference between abandoning technology that literally makes our world go round (at least in the economic sense), and not lighting up until the kid is out of a car.
A lesser of two evils kinda thing. |
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| Jayx1 |
right...
how about you just dont allow your kids to get into my car and let me do whatever i want and everybody will be happy. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
Jay, read up on JS Mill, a great thinker that promoted free speech, and what you're saying really reminds me of him (well, except that Mills didn't have nearly as many errors in reasoning).
In his discussion he claimed that all mankind had no right to silence one dissenter, no right of the majority telling the minority what to do or how to behave. No right at all except for one reason - that person causing harm to others.
I'm with Mill on this. You can smoke and hack plemh all over your car all you want when youre by yourself, but if in 10 years by some chance yours and my kid were carpooling to school and you were smoking behind the wheel inside your "personal space" I'd come after you to "regulate" your empty head with a baseball bat. |
one of the great Utilitarians..."On Liberty" is a good, short read. The "tyranny of the majority" is a concept unfortunately lost on so many people here with regards to the rights and well being of minority groups. What is best taken from the Utilitarians, IMHO, is exactly what you mention. Everyone should be free to pursue their own happiness, so long as that happiness does not infringe upon the ability of others to do the same. It's that last part that seems to be forgotten these days ;)
I think you also bring up an interersting point...this isn't just about a parent and THEIR kid.
I think that on this specific issue, I have to ultimately agree with the others though...despite my vehement opposition to smokers lighting up around non-smokers. I'm not sure this type of bylaw is the right way to correct what should at least be recognized by everyone as very unhealthy behaviour.
I just wish that people could present their positions in a less inflammatory, wildly exaggerated, politician-like manner. It seems that every little bylaw proposal is seen as a march towards a Big Brother society...which is silly. |
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| maxtuh |
| quote: | Originally posted by Waxen
Ok - but just say you don't have any kids. Will it still be illegal to smoke in your car? Or what if you have kids but smoke in the car when they aren't in it? Would that be illegal?
I totally agree that smoking in a "confined" space while there's a child within it, is wrong. |
I agree its just plain stupid law.
But if your with family i doubt it youd be puffing away, until your entire family smoked:D |
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| Theresa |
Doesn't anyone see what's really going on?!
Haven't you noticed that the government has been trying really hard to take away the influence of cigarette smoking away from non-smokers? Perhaps they know something that we don't.
Other than the fact that it is causing many thousands of people to die, it might be polluting the air so badly that we are in crisis. Or perhaps the health costs are FLYING through the rooves because so many people are getting sick.
WHAT IF the government is actually trying to get people to STOP smoking! I mean, look at all the negative cigarette propaganda. It's on the cigarette packs, and on television. Now they are trying to regulate it so much that it is becoming an inconvenience to smoke.
Whatever it is, the reason why the government is stepping in and making these laws is because half of the ing population is so gawd damned stupid, they can't use their brains to put together two and two, which to others... is COMMON SENSE! If the government didn't make regulations and laws, we would probably already be dead.
And what about all the tax dollars being put into these fools that are dying from their addiction? Personally, I think if you have smoked all your life, and you get lung cancer, you should pay for your own healthcare. Why the hell should I pay for someone to get kemo and whatnot because they were too much of a dumbass to quit?
Perhaps the cost of healthcare for cigarette induced illness's is climbing higher to the point of outweighing the profits. |
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