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Jesus speaks through Republicans? (pg. 5)
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| speedracer_mec |
He starts this thread by asking how Jesus is involved in Politics. I gave my point of views on how people perceive the parties regarding morals/values and how Christians view certain issues. From there I explained how the parties stand on those issues. Now he only wants the opinions of the Christian Conservative Right?
Sounds like typical whining (ex:| quote: | | Then they are nothing shy of being hypocritical believers, period. |
and whats the point anyways? To yell and "degrade" those individuals who believe in God because they didnt vote Democrat?
Like I said Before:
| quote: | | "Voters rejected the party of gay activists, radical feminists, the Hollywood elite, pornographers, death-peddlers, anti-Christian bigots and apostate Catholics." |
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| ResonantDrag |
hold on speed.. i think you of all people realize the importance of giving a controversal thread title in order to spur interest in a debate topic. next time read the "on a more serious note" before you wage an attack. i'm sorry for your confusion regarding this thread, and perhaps it's a case were my whining mind was attuned to opus's whining mind. my "perception" of this thread from the beginning was as a forumed opportunity for christians to justify or dismiss the christian right's claim to be practitioners of the teachings of jesus christ. the political influence of said group really is a non-issue, but since it struck such a inharmonic chord with you, perhaps we have a case of the truth hurting.
i don't know if you're paying attention to the news, but these "christians" aren't just happy that their moral candidate got into office. they're acting as a PAC who is taking credit for this election.
okay, back to the subject at hand. are you a christian? can you offer a christian perspective regarding the claimed leadership of the new american christian movement? do you feel that their political idealogies fall in line with the lessons of tolerance, compassion and unconditional love taught by jesus the christ? can you provide coherent reasoning for your response? can you provide a response to these questions without reverting back to
| quote: | | "Voters rejected the party of gay activists, radical feminists, the Hollywood elite, pornographers, death-peddlers, anti-Christian bigots and apostate Catholics." |
?
perhaps a thread should be started regarding the influence of the christian right in the republican party and more recently in this election. maybe you could even start it. but i would like to see this one continued from a christian perspective, not a democrat or republican one. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
Before I reply to this, I do need to correct an error in the title of my thread - perhaps it may have cleared up my argument from the getgo -
It would be incorrect of me to blindly ask (facetiously I might add) whether or not Jesus is speaking through the Republicans.
Rather, it would have been much more appropriate to state whether or not Jesus is speaking through the Christian Republicans, i.e. the Christian Right. This has been the crux of my argument, and to induce my argument further to include ALL Republicans would be fallacious.
If I have confused Speed or anyone else in this matter, my apologies.
| quote: | Originally posted by speedracer_mec
He starts this thread by asking how Jesus is involved in Politics. I gave my point of views on how people perceive the parties regarding morals/values and how Christians view certain issues. |
But you failed to answer the question I posed regarding how the Christian Right can seemingly ignore some of Jesus' most potent societal teachings, or at the very least put those teachings on the backburner for other non-Jesus teachings within their rationale for their choice of candidacy.
Until you do so you are continuing to create a straw man argument that does not pertain to my question.
| quote: | | From there I explained how the parties stand on those issues. Now he only wants the opinions of the Christian Conservative Right? |
With the exception of my thread title, which I regret I should have modified, how can you not see this was my argument throughout this entire thread?
| quote: | Sounds like typical whining (ex:
and whats the point anyways? To yell and "degrade" those individuals who believe in God because they didnt vote Democrat? |
No. I am trying to figure out how they can readily dismiss certain societal issues taught by their Creator over a few handpicked issues, which can be argued were not directly taught by Jesus in any way. Whether or not that makes them vote one way or another is subsequent to this original arguement.
| quote: | | Like I said Before: |
And as I said before:
| quote: | | I am arguing the facts of the beliefs of the Christian Right and how they may (or may not) conflict with their candidate choice. perception for just a moment and please attempt to argue the belief. |
You want to answer for the Christian Right, please do so or don't respond at all. |
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| Zild |
| I was raised a christian and I would never vote for Bush. I don't really see how George W is a conservative. He's spent more money than a democrat would have, he hasn't done anything to reform welfare or other government type "handouts". He doesn't support a free market, the US goverment wipes the asses of all the giant conglomerates and corporations and gives them handouts instead of helping our own poor. Lets face it, instead of being conservative Bush has gotten us into a mess of a war in Iraq that benefits about 5% of the american population while it kills the poor both their's and our own. I don't see Bush as a conservative, therefore I won't support him. He's more neo conservative leaning with major tendencies to spend alot of money he doesn't have. I don't think elections should come down to stupid issues like gay marriage, abortion, and gun control. The government shouldn't have the power to tell gays they can't form civil unions, women are going to have abortions if they're legal or not, and democrats aren't trying to take everybody's precious guns away. A real conservative ran for office this year and I'm proud to say I voted for him. I hope that gives you the christian perspective you're looking for, although I'm not necessarily a practicing christian, I was raised in the faith, have actually read the Bible and believe in alot of what Jesus had to say. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
A real conservative ran for office this year and I'm proud to say I voted for him. |
So who was it? |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Michael Badnarik. |
Ahh. The wasted Libertarian vote. I like what the party stands for, but until they build a bigger base, I can't waste the power of my vote on a guy who I know little about other than his party affiliation. |
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| Zild |
| Then get informed. Its not wasted, the only wasted vote is voting for someone you don't fully respect. Politicians have to earn their vote from me. I don't just give it away because I dislike the opposition party's canditate. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Then get informed. Its not wasted, the only wasted vote is voting for someone you don't fully respect. Politicians have to earn their vote from me. I don't just give it away because I dislike the opposition party's canditate. |
True, but I find myself aligned enough with Bush's ideals/views/philosophy that I did not feel that my vote was cast for the wrong candidate. |
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| Renegade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Michael Badnarik. |
Badnarik is conservative in what sense exactly? |
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| Zild |
| In the sense that the Libertarian party is a conservative organization. That if he were president he'd cut the government and its spending in half and eleminate programs run on the taxpayers dollar like social security. If thats not the definition of conservative I don't know what dictionary you've been reading. |
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| Renegade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
In the sense that the Libertarian party is a conservative organization. That if he were president he'd cut the government and its spending in half and eleminate programs run on the taxpayers dollar like social security. If thats not the definition of conservative I don't know what dictionary you've been reading. |
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conservative
:conf:
Conservativism != Republican Party socio-economic policy.
Conservativism has to do with favouring traditional societal values ahead of more progressive ones, it doesn't have anything to do with ensuring that low-income mothers lack the money to feed themselves or their families. In most ways George Bush is as conservative as they get whereas Badnarik espouses policies that really are essentially progressive and radically liberal in nature. On economic issues, then I agree, Badnarik is further to the right than Bush, but economic neo-liberalism != conservativism. In Australia, for instance, many conservatives (until recently at least) were vehemently leftist economically, which in a lot of ways makes more sense - the doctrine of neo-liberalism is, afterall, a far more "progressive" (i.e. anti-conservative) ideal than the centralised, Keynesian economic systems.
While I do sort of see where you're coming from, understand that Badnarik isn't really a conservative in any traditional sense of the word.
[/thread derailment] |
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