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Sidechaing in Cubase SX 2
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| S7a5 |
Hello I'm new here
I have a question regarding sidechaining in Cubase SX
I have a Waves C1 sidechain compressor which looks pretty tight but i have no idea how to use it :(
Mostly I wanna use this feature for my kick and bass which is called ducking I belive.
How should i set all this up? Should I transport bass and drums into audio files or it can work through midi? ( I use RM IV for my drum machine). Should I create some additional busses in Cubase, if so how?
Thanks a lot |
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| Limit |
| the wavess C1 comp with sidechain isn't a regular sidechianing function in regards to sidechaining...what it does do is sidechain through its internal EQ and only uses one source...The only vst to my knowledge that can use sidechain in teh manner you would like too is the TC Native Bundle. |
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| Dj Thy |
It can be done using the key feature of the C1, but it's a rather awkward method of working (not as comprehensive as using internal busses in Protools or Logic).
If you route both the kick and the bass (in the example of bassducking) to a group, and put the C1 on the group, you can select that one side will be compressed, but triggered by the other (don't remember exactly which side, I think you can use the right side as the trigger to compress the left side). Just fool around a bit with the key feature.
Problem is, you'll need to create a duplicate of your trigger signal, if you still want to hear it in the mix (if you set the compressor on the group, and use the kick as trigger signal, it will go straight to the sidechain input, and not to the mix output).
Besides the TC Native plugins who uses a more comprehensive way of sidechaining, there is also a compressor plugin from dB Audioware that has such feature. |
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| Subtle |
| what is sidechaining? could someone POST and example of what it is? cause i dont have a clue at all :conf: |
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| Dj Thy |
If you look at dynamics processors, like compressors and gates, they have something called the sidechain. Unlike some people think, every dynamic processor has one... But on better models (either software or hardware), this sidechain is accessible by the user (the sidechain input, sometimes called the key input).
What is the sidechain? It's the circuit that "triggers" the processor. In hardware it can be based on a VCA, an optocoupler, etc...
Let me give you an example, with a hardware compressor, and I think it'll become quite clear.
In normal use, let's say you want to compress a kick. You present the kick to the input of the compressor (usually via an insert). What happens is : the kick signal runs through the sidechain, which detects the level. According to that detected level and your settings (threshold, ratio, ...), an amplifier will be controlled that applies gain reduction on your signal. In this example (the normal use) the kick signal triggers the compressor, to compress the kick signal.
Now, when you have access to the sidechain (there is a sidechain in/key in, on your compressor) you can use this to compress a signal, but let the compressor be triggered by another signal than the one you are actually compressing.
One of the most common uses for that is bassducking (sometimes called kick over bass). In this example, you want to compress the bassline. So you present the bass signal to the compressor input. Yet, you want the kick to trigger the compressor. So you present the kick signal to the sidechain. What happens is, the detection circuit will react according to the kick signal. It then drives the amplifier that applies the gain reduction, but to your bass. In practice this will mean that your bass will go down each time the kick plays. Very good to make get the bass louder without losing the kick punch, or to get a pumping effect. That's basically one of the uses of sidechaining.
Other uses :
- a de-esser : let's say you want to remove sibilance from a vocal. That can be done with a compressor where you have access to the sidechain. Just split the vocal. The "untreated" vocal goes into the compressor. The second instance of the vocal will be heavily EQ'ed. You will boost the "S' es" a lot, and remove most of the bass. This EQ'ed vocal will be presented to the sidechain. What happens is, the detection circuit will be mostly triggered by S'es (as it merely looks for levels). In practice it means the compressor will apply gain reduction on the "untreated" vocal on every S that goes over the threshold. In specialised de-essers, all this is done for you, but you can perfectly make one yourself with a decent compressor. It's better than EQ'ing out the S'es, as that will result in a more muffled sound. The de-esser only works when a harsh S is present, and doesn't affect the sound any further.
- Voice over / talkover : mostly done with a gate in ducking mode. The vocal trigs the sidechain, to pull the music down when the narrator/dj is speaking.
- Rhytmic patterns : you can do this with a gate in gating mode, or in ducking mode. With a heavy compressor another kind of effect will be created. Say you have a synth playing a steady tone. And you have a rythmic loop somewhere. Put the loop into the sidechain, and adjust your gate settings so it opens on the rythmic hits. The synth goes into the gate input. In gate mode, what happens : each time the loop hits, the gate opens, so you'll hear the synth. In ducking mode, the opposite will happen. The synth will play, except when the loop hits. The effect is you're steady tone will be choppped up rythmically.
People who know Fruity will immediately think of the peak controller. Similar stuff, exactly.
Hope you understand now. |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Thy
- Rhytmic patterns : you can do this with a gate in gating mode, or in ducking mode. With a heavy compressor another kind of effect will be created. Say you have a synth playing a steady tone. And you have a rythmic loop somewhere. Put the loop into the sidechain, and adjust your gate settings so it opens on the rythmic hits. The synth goes into the gate input. In gate mode, what happens : each time the loop hits, the gate opens, so you'll hear the synth. In ducking mode, the opposite will happen. The synth will play, except when the loop hits. The effect is you're steady tone will be choppped up rythmically.
People who know Fruity will immediately think of the peak controller. Similar stuff, exactly.
Hope you understand now. |
THAT was the part of the explanation that made me understand.. thx.. any examples on tracks where this is used? |
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| S7a5 |
tx a lot everyone im now using tc native and it seems to do what it is intended to do.
As for C1 I figured out it takes pretty long time to do it and still its not clear |
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| Beijer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subtle
THAT was the part of the explanation that made me understand.. thx.. any examples on tracks where this is used? |
You could have a listen to DT8 Project feat Andrea Britton - Winter (Max Graham Sidechain Mix). It has a pretty hefty use of that technique! lol |
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| josh |
Blame on my slow brain.
I will like to take a look at the tutorial if someone is doing for it.
Or rather screen shot? :tongue2 |
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| Beijer |
I don't use sidechaining very much, but when I want to experiment with the pumping effect - I use a dynamics processor from db audioware. Makes sidechaining pretty easy. Pretty good value too!
http://www.db-audioware.com/dbd.htm |
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| max graham |
although i use cubase SX3 i dont use it for sidechaining - its a nightmare to do it internally...
i do it through my mackie desk with alesis compressors - yes outboard still exists
mg |
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| Beijer |
| Off topic but: Are you THE Max Graham? :eyes: |
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