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Polygamy coming to Canada (pg. 5)
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| cyper |
| What Would Tyler Durden Do? |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Time2Burn
I fail to understand what the The Commonwealth of Massachusetts has to do with opening my eyes. |
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/...arriage.ruling/
Less than two years later, the beastiality bill was proposed.
The same process is happening in Canada. |
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| muzzybear |
| There's already polygamists living in BC. The mormons there own really expensive land that the govenment uses or something, so the government there turns a blind eye... it was on an A&E documentary a while back. I'll see if I can find out anything about it. |
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| muzzybear |
Aha! http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm
POLYGYNY IN THE MORMON MOVEMENT:
In Bountiful, British Columbia, Canada
Bountiful, British Columbia:
The town of Bountiful was founded in southeastern British Columbia, Canada, during 1947. It is located in the Creston Valley, near Cranbrook and Creston, BC. It is in a rugged area about 40 miles northeast of the junction of the borders of Idaho, Montana, and British Columbia. Its estimated population in 1998 was 600. 6 It has since grown to about 1,000. Almost all residents are the descendents of about six men.
Most, if not all, of the residents of Bountiful are Mormons, members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). They follow the original teachings of Joseph Smith which includes polygyny: the practice of a single man marrying multiple wives.
In 1890, Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the main Mormon denomination, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), issued a manifesto. It was a revelation from God called the "Great Accommodation". It suspended the solemnization of new Mormon plural marriages for an indefinite interval. Since that time, all Mormons who enter into new polygamous marriages have been excommunicated from LDS. However, the church did support existing plural marriages at the time of the manifesto.
The FLDS was founded in 1935 by a group of polygynist Mormons who had been ejected from the LDS. The FLDS' main membership is now centered in the twin cities of Colorado City, AZ and Hildale, UT. All administrative power is concentrated in a single leader, who is currently Warren Jeffs, (1956 -) 7 He appointed a single administrator over the Bountiful group: Winston Blackmore. Jeffs later purged Blackmore, replacing him with Bishop James Oler. Blackmore has since organized a splinter Fundamentalist Mormon group. 9
The FLDS is a secretive organization. Little precise information about the FLDS is available to outsiders. As a result, most of the information comes from critics of the FLDS or from ex-FLDS members who have left the group. These can be unreliable sources. Even less information is available about the Canadian group. They have a policy of not talking to the media.
FLDS beliefs and practices:
Polygyny presents obvious problems for a religious group or community. Since roughly equal numbers of boy and girl babies are born, it takes extraordinary steps to provide men with multiple wives. Where do the excess males go? Where do the surplus females come from?
Benjamin Bistline spent part of his childhood among polygynists in the main FLDS group in what is now called Colorado City, AZ. He has written a book about his experiences. 8 He has observed that in order to maintain a culture in which most men have many wives, it is necessary to persuade most male youths to leave the community at a relatively young age. Teenaged women with restricted education are then matched up with older men, preferably before they develop an interest in boys their own age. After an unregistered marriage, the new wives financially support the family by applying for welfare as single mothers. It is quite possible that the same policies are pursued in the Bountiful group. The U.S. and Canadian branches appear to be closely linked. There have been allegations in the U.S. and Canadian media that teenage women have been transported from the U.S. group to supply men in Bountiful with additional brides.
According to The Economist magazine, and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Fifth Estate TV program, some of the unusual theological beliefs and practices of the FLDS are:
Men must have at least three wives and as many children as possible in order to enter the highest level of heaven, and to have the opportunity to evolve into a God.
A woman's role is to serve a man and be submissive to his needs.
Women who disobey men will have their souls burn in Hell for eternity.
Children are usually required to leave school at the age of 13 or 14.
Their marriage ceremony consists of the woman placing her hand in the man's hand in what is called "the patriarchal grip."
A man is not permitted to have sexual intercourse with one of his wives if she is pregnant.
"If...an older man seduces a 13-year old girl....in his own mind he doesn't commit sexual abuse.....he views himself as married." (Comment by Ron Barton, special investigator of "closed societies," at the Utah State Attorney's Office)
Because all the plural marriages, except perhaps for the first one, are celestial, and not legal unions, FLDS men are not polygamists; they are only adulterers in the eyes of the state. Adultery is not a criminal act. (Comment by former Bishop Winston Blackmore of Bountiful) 9,10,11
Also according to The Economist, critics say that the schools run by the Canadian branch of the FLDS provide minimal education. Boys are trained as farm and forest laborers. Girls are trained to be "young brides and mothers....Women who have fled tell of girls as young as 13 being married off to polygamous men three times their age; of babies born to girls of 14 and 15; and of under-age girls being brought in from similar American communes for arranged marriages and to serve as 'breeding stock'."
According to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, "...some men have close to 30 wives and father up to 80 children....teenage girls are married to men old enough to be their grandfathers.10
Initial bigamy allegations:
In 1990, some women who had fled Bountiful demanded an investigation into why the police were ignoring the multiple marriages in the town. Two years later, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) conducted an investigation in Bountiful and recommended that charges of polygamy be laid against two men. 9 The Attorney General of the province of British Columbia decided to not proceed. The office obtained two independent legal opinions. Both agreed that the courts would probably find the federal anti-bigamy law to be unconstitutional. It conflicts with the Mormons' religious freedom as guaranteed by Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms -- the country's constitution. If brought to court, the Province would probably lose the case. |
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| Wurm |
Fiscal conservatism is one thing.
I am astounded by the social conservatism displayed in this forum considering the activities engaged in by many here. |
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| Time2Burn |
So basically what your saying is that over time our society evolves due to the ever changing morality of society.
**edit** This is not to say our society is moving to one that approves of "beastiality". But I do think our society is moving to one that accepts one's persoanl freedom of choice to live a lifestyle that they so chose to (as long as their behavior doesn't harm others). |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Wurm
Fiscal conservatism is one thing.
I am astounded by the social conservatism displayed in this forum considering the activities engaged in by many here. |
im astounded that any serious government body would even consider polygamy. We need to nip this one in the bud immediately. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
im astounded that any serious government body would even consider polygamy. We need to nip this one in the bud immediately. |
I'm confused. Not that I support polygamy, however, I have to ask how YOU, Jay, can be against it. Is this not an individual liberty? Or is it only certain individual liberties you support, this not being one of them as it has never before been present in our society? Why does the freedom to do everything else seem so important to you but having multiple spouses is unacceptable?
Srsly, I'm not being a smart ass here, I want to understand your reasoning. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I'm confused. Not that I support polygamy, however, I have to ask how YOU, Jay, can be against it. Is this not an individual liberty? Or is it only certain individual liberties you support, this not being one of them as it has never before been present in our society? Why does the freedom to do everything else seem so important to you but having multiple spouses is unacceptable?
Srsly, I'm not being a smart ass here, I want to understand your reasoning. |
You have to understand the context that this is in. Its not a case of having 3 people in a household with equal rights. People who are polygamists are generally authoritarian and domineering of women. Its well documented that these women are usually forced into the agreement and denied rights under religious pretenses, especially when they are recent immigrants. It is the same reason i dont support the religious act of cutting off a woman's clitoris.
I support rights that dont harm others directly. This is a case that does harm others.
That and... this means there are less women for the rest of us! LOL!!! |
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| MarkT |
hahahaha...as soon as I read the article in the Toronto Star I knew that Shadowolf would pounce and start a thread...LOL...lame.
I suppose it's those awful, immoral gays who are to blame (despite polygamy having nothing to do with homosexuality around the world...it's actually a HETERO issue for the most part). |
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| EvilTree |
Speaking of polygamy, this one in more secular sense
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4610396.stm
| quote: |
Polygamy proposal for Chechen men
Acting Chechen Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov
Mr Kadyrov said Chechen women outnumber men by 10%
Chechnya has lost so many men to war that survivors should be legally allowed to take several wives, acting Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov has said.
Speaking on Russian radio, the pro-Moscow leader said this was "necessary for Chechnya because we have war - we have more women than men".
He was backed by Russian parliamentary deputy speaker Vladimir Zhirinovsky.
Russian law restricts citizens to one marriage, but Islamic custom allows a man to take up to four wives.
'No interference
Mr Kadyrov told Ekho Moskvy radio that women in the Russian republic outnumbered men by 10%, and that a man should be able to choose how many wives he had without the state getting involved.
"Every man decides for himself how he should live. He is the boss, he decides, I am sure that his personal life will not be interfered with," he said.
Mr Zhirinovsky, who is the leader of the ultra-nationalist Liberal Democratic Party (LDPR), said polygamy should be applied across Russia "because we have 10 million unmarried women".
He told the state-owned Itar-Tass news agency that he would introduce an amendment in the spring parliamentary session. |
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| MarkT |
it's very unfortunate that some opportunistic proponents of polygamy, or anti gay marriage people, are using the gay marriage issue as somehow eventually leading to or supporting allowing polygamy. That's a whole separate issue.
polygamy is illegal...homosexuality is not (anymore, thanks to it being taken off the books some time ago).
The legal term "marriage" can be amended to read a union between two consenting, unrelated (etc) adults. It is illogical to suggest that the door is then opened to amending marriage to include more than two adults.
two separate issues folks...it should be obvious. Just because people are pushing for polygamy doesn't mean it's going to happen. I suspect there will be FAR less support, publicly and in the law, to support polygamy in Canada.
don't worry...when the gov't fails to address this, our liberal judges will throw it out of court :D |
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