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Ripping on Americans. A message to Canadians (pg. 2)
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
If effecting change is the objective - wouldn't it be better to give this message to people who were bashing in the first place? |
Capital idea! |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
If effecting change is the objective - wouldn't it be better to give this message to people who were bashing in the first place? |
I did actually. My table at this bar turned around and we had a mini debate. It was pretty good, it didn't get heated at all, and the one guy at the other table bought my table (of 3 people) a round when it was all done. Buddy admitted that he didn't know enough about Canadian politics, but tried to say that Canadian politics are boring and not enough exciting things happen here. When he realized how much that statement warranted an eye roll, he tried to take it back, backed himself into a corner, and then said he'd try to tune in more.
Another funny thing, in most anti-american debates, the entire basis of the US bashing side is anti bush. Bush this, bush that, republicans this, republicans that. That's ignorant too. The USA is virtually divided into 2. The only reason the right wing is so big is because the US was spoiled with alot of economic prosperity over the past 10+ years. Canada's conservative side is pretty big now too.
:)
Karim |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Three things.... first, the passion that Europeans display when talking about their local politics may very well be why you received the impression that they are better informed. The more passion they have the more it will be talked about. That doesn't mean that they are well informed, only that they voice their opinions more readily. PLEASE NOTE, I am not saying you are incorrect, only that there may be an alternative reason.... I've seen no studies on this.
Second, you have to look differently when talking about LOCAL politics in Canada then in Europe. Local in Europe may mean national but in Canada it is more provincial. Let's not forget that due to our federal system we are really more like the EU as a whole then like any one of its member countries.
Third, the amount of interest one state's populace has in the current events of another state is mainly linked to the historical or economic interest the people of that state have tied to the other. It's interesting that you cite Dutch relatives knowing who the PM is. This does not surprise me as the Dutch have taken a very keen interest in Canada ever since the second great war. If you go there and identify yourself as a Canadian many of the oldtimers will still give you a free beer and want to shake your hand. I met a man in Rotterdam that thanked me for over 20 minutes for the role my grandfather played in liberating the village he grew up in. Likewise, Canada has a keen interest in the US as our economic well being is tied to theirs. |
wow all good points. and cool story :) |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
LOL That's what I thought too.... :p
Wait....is that why he named Jayx1 hahahahaha |
LOL, I didn't name him to boost his ego. I named him because of all the threads he starts on canadian politics, all the comments he makes revolving around canadian politics, and the fact he cares. I also didn't want him saying "Hey, don't speak for everybody, I read the Canadian news".
I'm sure there are some views he has that I don't see eye to eye with. Like how much advertising effects consumer choices.
:)
Karim |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
Wow, powerful words. I guess that settles this debate.
:p
Karim |
What debate...IMHO I think your sure of what you've posted and I know that my opin, along with many TA's here don't share that same view.
So rather than go against you....I think I'll suggest that you maybe take it to the political forum and those of us that have something to say will reply there :toocool: |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
Another funny thing, in most anti-american debates, the entire basis of the US bashing side is anti bush. Bush this, bush that, republicans this, republicans that. That's ignorant too. The USA is virtually divided into 2. The only reason the right wing is so big is because the US was spoiled with alot of economic prosperity over the past 10+ years. Canada's conservative side is pretty big now too.
:)
Karim |
I must take umbridge with this last paragraph. While I appreciate that it may seem that way currently (largely because the present administration is an easy target) it goes much deeper then that. Being as you are a Poli Sci student you either have or will learn about political cultures (which I did my honours thesis on). The US has a political culture based in liberalism and constructed by a group of persons that feared authority. Their entire political system is designed to prevent anyone from having too much power. Additionally, their constitution is structured to keep the government as uninvolved in the day to day lives of citizens as possible. Conversely, Canada has its political culture founded in conservatism. The principle reason behind our confederation was to protect ourselves from an implied/imagined US threat (mobilized army at the end of the civil war). And our constitution reflect a people who's desire was for the government to ensure our safety and order. As you can see, there are two very divergant political cultures at work in our countries.... almost opposite really. More then anything else this is the cause of our political sniping back and forward. We have a different political culture which has shaped different values which has thereby shaped divergent moralities which is reflected in our opinions on policy and world events.
By the way, as a Poli Sci student you should know enough to use the proper terms for the political spectrum as opposed to the common liberal and conservative (which you know are opposite of their ideological meaning). Please left and right wing from now on. |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
LOL, I didn't name him to boost his ego. I named him because of all the threads he starts on canadian politics, all the comments he makes revolving around canadian politics, and the fact he cares. I also didn't want him saying "Hey, don't speak for everybody, I read the Canadian news".
I'm sure there are some views he has that I don't see eye to eye with. Like how much advertising effects consumer choices.
:)
Karim |
I'm afraid your highly misinformed and misguided if you think Jay posts political views. No offence Jayx1, but it's not as if I haven't told you this before. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
wow all good points. and cool story :) |
Thanks. As cool as it was to have this gentleman thank me for something my grandfather did years ago it made me pretty uncomfortable and a little sad. I was pretty disheartened that this man could be so grateful for what our grandparents did that he took 20 minutes out of his day to thank the grandson of a man he had never actually met for something that happened 60 years earlier yet some of us can't take 20 minutes to go to a cemitaph once a year to remember why it is that Grandpa is missing a foot, or Mom never knew her father, or why there is a 200m tall marble statue to our great grandparents in north west France. |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Three things.... first, the passion that Europeans display when talking about their local politics may very well be why you received the impression that they are better informed. The more passion they have the more it will be talked about. That doesn't mean that they are well informed, only that they voice their opinions more readily. PLEASE NOTE, I am not saying you are incorrect, only that there may be an alternative reason.... I've seen no studies on this.
Second, you have to look differently when talking about LOCAL politics in Canada then in Europe. Local in Europe may mean national but in Canada it is more provincial. Let's not forget that due to our federal system we are really more like the EU as a whole then like any one of its member countries.
Third, the amount of interest one state's populace has in the current events of another state is mainly linked to the historical or economic interest the people of that state have tied to the other. It's interesting that you cite Dutch relatives knowing who the PM is. This does not surprise me as the Dutch have taken a very keen interest in Canada ever since the second great war. If you go there and identify yourself as a Canadian many of the oldtimers will still give you a free beer and want to shake your hand. I met a man in Rotterdam that thanked me for over 20 minutes for the role my grandfather played in liberating the village he grew up in. Likewise, Canada has a keen interest in the US as our economic well being is tied to theirs. |
Europeans for the most part are raised to be aware of what's happening in their government. Politics is a big thing in my househould between my dad, my mom, my grandma and I. My brother on the other hand simply doesn't and never did care. My Grandma who doesn't speak a word of english will watch english news programs in a desperate effort to be informed. Then she found the polish radio station, and when I'm home for the summers, I'd drive down to the polish store to grab her a polish news paper, and she'll talk my ear off for hours about political affairs. The typical Canadian family chooses not to discuss politics at the dinner table, or tune into the news when they're all watching TV. That is where the problem is. People here don't respect the impact politics has on us enough.
And we can't say that our geographical differences really are a key difference between europe and canada. Sure they feel everything more cause they're closer, how the term 'hits closer to home' was prolly coined, but with the advent of technology, Canada's gotten alot smaller, what happens here does impact what happens in BC, NFLD, etc. What happens in Canadian politics does affect everybody, we feel it in our quality of healthcare, in our taxes, in our education. Now say I'm done school, and in the working world, and I hear about a teachers strike, etc. With the typical Canadian mindset, I'd prolly not care so much. It doesn't directly affect me. And that's another problem, we lack a sense of community. If we can't care for our social well being as a nation, why would we care about what's going on in Newfoundland, BC, etc.?
BTW, I really liked that story about the man in Rotterdam. Props to the vets.
:)
Karim |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
What debate...IMHO I think your sure of what you've posted and I know that my opin, along with many TA's here don't share that same view.
So rather than go against you....I think I'll suggest that you maybe take it to the political forum and those of us that have something to say will reply there :toocool: |
There's a political forum now? But lemme get this straight, do you honestly thing that Canadians have the right to bash americans because we consider ourselves smarter, and better informed? I'm just saying we're not nearly as informed as a whole as we all think we are. When we talk about ignorance and ego, Canada's is pretty inflated.
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
I'm afraid your highly misinformed and misguided if you think Jay posts political views. No offence Jayx1, but it's not as if I haven't told you this before. |
I'll be honest when i say I don't read alot of what Jay says. only his one liner political comments like "privatize the lcbo" etc. I deal with enough politics as it is at school to care so much about discussing alot on tranceaddict, but this is something I wanted to address and I thought I'd bring it up.
:)
Karim |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
we lack a sense of community. If we can't care for our social well being as a nation, why would we care about what's going on in Newfoundland, BC, etc.?
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Oh yeah, and before anyone jumps on it, I forgot to add that the USA is no better in this regard either. Their sense of community sucks too. I'm not saying that they're perfect and we're wrong, my entire points are geared towards saying that we're not as perfect as we think we are. Not even close.
:)
Karim |
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