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Canada is not a democracy
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| ShadoWolf |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...4/BNStory/Front
Ottawa — Prime Minister Paul Martin has named retired general Roméo Dallaire and eight others as new senators.
Former defence minister Art Eggleton has also been appointed.
The list includes six Liberals, two Conservatives and one New Democrat.
It does not include any of the three men unofficially elected by Alberta voters who want to see an elected Senate.
Four of the new appointees are women.
In addition to Gen. Dallaire and Mr. Eggleton, the list includes:
# Jim Cowan, a Martin backer in Nova Scotia.
# Lillian Dyck of Saskatchewan.
# Nancy Ruth of Ontario.
# Robert Peterson, a Saskatchewan Liberal.
# Grant Mitchell, former Alberta Liberal leader.
# Claudette Tardif of Alberta.
# Elaine McCoy of Alberta
Gen. Dallaire, widely viewed as a hero for his efforts to stem genocide in Rwanda, had been rumoured to be on the shortlist, but many on the list have decades-old political ties.
Others who had been suggested as possibilities before Thursday included Liberal stalwarts such as former Alberta party leader Mr. Mitchell and former New Brunswick premier Raymond Frenette.
Liberal insiders have said that Mr. Martin was attempting to mix up the appointments with a few Conservatives to balance more partisan appointments of long-time Liberals and campaign organizers who helped him come to power.
Expected announcements have been delayed in recent weeks as advisers in the Prime Minister's Office struggled to balance out the list of candidates for Senate openings.
The appointments, Martin's first as prime minister, still leave seven vacancies in the upper chamber.
Perhaps no other batch of Senate appointments has been the subject of such drawn-out, protracted strategizing.
Martin aides have been besieged by scores of requests for appointments from people who helped the prime minister during his two-decade-long bid for the Liberal leadership.
While Mr. Martin delayed making any nominations for over a year, 16 of the Senate's 105 seats opened up.
Mr. Martin says he agrees the Senate should ultimately be overhauled to make the institution more democratic, but that won't soon happen because it would require another wrenching round of constitutional negotiations.
The prime minister has declared it a personal mission to reduce so-called Western alienation — but has always declared himself wary of a Senate-reform initiative that's dear to many Albertans.
Alberta's stop-gap solution of holding elections for senators won't fly, say Martin aides, because it would lead to a balkanized upper chamber where only a handful of appointees could claim democratic legitimacy.
After years of deriding the Senate for under-representing the West and for being a patronage plaything of successive federal governments, Alberta started holding its elections in 1989.
Just one elected senator — Stan Waters — was ever appointed, in 1990 by then-prime minister Brian Mulroney. |
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| ShadoWolf |
Alberta recently elected four Senators, yet Martin ignored the wishes of the people and instead gave patronage positions to Lieberal Party insiders.
:whip: |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Alberta recently elected four Senators, yet Martin ignored the wishes of the people and instead gave patronage positions to Lieberal Party insiders.
:whip: |
Hey, dumbass.... you're right, Canada is not a democracy.... it's a constitutional monarchy. The way we work here is; the people elect the house of commons, the majority party in the house of commons becomes the government, the government makes recommendations to the Queen or in her absense the Gov. Gen. and the monarch acts on those recommendations. The democratic part of this comes at the very begining when yuo vote for your member of parliament... last I checked there was a legitimate election that resulted in a legitimate government. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Hey, dumbass.... you're right, Canada is not a democracy.... it's a constitutional monarchy. The way we work here is; the people elect the house of commons, the majority party in the house of commons becomes the government, the government makes recommendations to the Queen or in her absense the Gov. Gen. and the monarch acts on those recommendations. The democratic part of this comes at the very begining when yuo vote for your member of parliament... last I checked there was a legitimate election that resulted in a legitimate government. |
Where in the constitution does it say the Prime Minister gets to personally appoint Senators? |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Where in the constitution does it say the Prime Minister gets to personally appoint Senators? |
the government of the day recommends persons for appointment to the senate and the crown either appoints them or does not (in almost all cases they do). Interestingly, our constitution does state that the HOC is to be elected while the senate is appointed... why do you feel the government should change this practice? Additionally, as the province of Alberta overwhelmingly supports one party it would seem that it is likely that their elected senators are mearly an indirect patrinidge appointment.... the same would be true if this practice were in place during the historical periods of overwhelming BQ support in Quebec. By the way, who nominated the persons that were on the ballot for potential senate seats and how was that nomination process carried out (I'm not being snarky here, I have heard nothing of the process itself)? |
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| Matt |
| but according to the neocons, Canadians elect idiots anyway.... so why does it matter? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Alberta recently elected four Senators, yet Martin ignored the wishes of the people and instead gave patronage positions to Lieberal Party insiders.
:whip: |
Um....welcome to Canada dood... :p
The loony left is crazy like that... |
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| MarkT |
The gov't appointing Senators is commonplace in Canada...I'm sure Martin didn't sit in a room by himself and unilaterally do this...so *nice try* just bashing the Liberals again, Shadowolf :rolleyes:
isn't Alberta the only place in Canada that does this (and only just recently)? |
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| tamk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Um....welcome to Canada dood... :p
The loony left is crazy like that... |
i'm not canadian...but i know...appointing sentors isnt a practice of the left, canadian consitiutional practice allows for the appointemnt of sentors...its part of the way your country has functioning...nothing to do with political inclinations. |
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| baystreetboi |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Where in the constitution does it say the Prime Minister gets to personally appoint Senators? |
Where in the constitution does it say you get to elect Senators?
(By the way, the constitution says zip-all about the position of Prime Minister to begin with!) |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
The gov't appointing Senators is commonplace in Canada...I'm sure Martin didn't sit in a room by himself and unilaterally do this... |
Actually, that room is called the PMO.
| quote: | | so *nice try* just bashing the Liberals again, Shadowolf :rolleyes: |
It's astonishing to me that you have so much faith in people who have so little faith in you.
| quote: | | isn't Alberta the only place in Canada that does this (and only just recently)? |
BC and Ontario have mulled doing to same.
Anyway, what's your point? Don't we all deserve a democratic say? |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by baystreetboi
Where in the constitution does it say you get to elect Senators?
(By the way, the constitution says zip-all about the position of Prime Minister to begin with!) |
That's exactly my point. The constitution doesn't mention the position of PM, and yet PM's have been abusing their position by making outrageous appointments and not being responsible to the legislature.
Australia has a Triple E Senate, why can't we? |
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