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The Real Deal on the Sponsorship Scandal?? (pg. 6)
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
Most of it is provincial stuff (healthcare espcially because I'm a diabetic and hence rely a lot on the public system), |
The Lieberals are hoarding money that could be used for health care. Also, there's a massive fiscal imbalance through the faulty equalization system caused by the Lieberals that negatively affects health care.
edit: and never forget that it was Paul Martin who made the biggest cuts to healthcare in history, esp. in 1995
| quote: | | but I'm also concerned about the federal conservatives' unwillingness to support things like Kyoto because of the interests of Canadian business. |
Kyoto is not an environmental treaty - it's an economic treaty. THe Lieberals want to use it to redistribute income from Alberta to other provinces. |
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| Jayx1 |
| It's true. The liberals are no friends of health care. They have done more federally to cut funding than mike harris could have ever dreamt. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
The NDP has good intentions but they will enevitably make us all poorer in the end. ANd poor people dont care about things like the environment and being nice to people. They care about jobs and money. |
I just think that they're a good party to temper the liberals. Make us all poorer? I think not. Don't forget that poor people spend a much higher % of their money than rich people do. Give $10 000 to 10 rich guys, and most of them won't spend it in Canada (or at least spend it at slow rate). Give $100 to 1000 poor people, and most of them will put it back into the domestic economy very quickly, where it will eventually bubble up into the hands of the rich anyway.
I've always believed that left-wing economics works better in the long run (ie is more sustainable). Leaning too far to the right just causes the rich to become richer and the poor to become poorer. IMO, the equilibrium needs to be moved down a bit. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| Honestly, I'd rather things the way they are in Ontario than they are in Alberta from a healthcare standpoint. I'd be way worse off over there. You can't tell me that's the fault of the federal liberals. |
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| baystreetboi |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
I just think that they're a good party to temper the liberals. Make us all poorer? I think not. Don't forget that poor people spend a much higher % of their money than rich people do. Give $10 000 to 10 rich guys, and most of them won't spend it in Canada (or at least spend it at slow rate). Give $100 to 1000 poor people, and most of them will put it back into the domestic economy very quickly, where it will eventually bubble up into the hands of the rich anyway.
I've always believed that left-wing economics works better in the long run (ie is more sustainable). Leaning too far to the right just causes the rich to become richer and the poor to become poorer. IMO, the equilibrium needs to be moved down a bit. |
On the other hand, those rich people aren't keeping the cash stashed under their mattress either. They're investing it in debt and equity which in turn allows companies to grow, thus hiring more people. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Kyoto is not an environmental treaty - it's an economic treaty. THe Lieberals want to use it to redistribute income from Alberta to other provinces. |
Well... that's strictly an opinion. Humanity as a whole has got a lot of problems, and I get a bit pissed when parties ignore potential catastrophes because of economic reasons. Western society has got this fix on the idea that productivity, wealth, technology, and growth are always good things, and I tend to disagree. We're going to be kicking ourselves when our population is 20 billion and our planet is cooking. We've profited at the expense of the planet, and nobody wants to acknowledge that the earth is bleeding at our feet.
Idunno... the way things are right now, I'm not sure if I'd rather just to be a caveman working 3 hours a day hunting and gathering, and just spending the rest of the day relaxing and enjoying life, rather than living a stressful north american lifestyle in a poisoned environment.
Then again, without technology, my diabetes would have killed me, and we would have no trance music! Tough predicament.
In order for change to take place though, we have to get past our current cultural ideals about wealth and money. People are so damn greedy. It's not as if the liberals are any better. I really don't like either party. The NDP is the best of the three to me. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by baystreetboi
On the other hand, those rich people aren't keeping the cash stashed under their mattress either. They're investing it in debt and equity which in turn allows companies to grow, thus hiring more people. |
Many invest and spend it offshore. The richer you are, the more likely that money is not going to be spent in Canada. I wish I had a statistic about how many rich people spent their tax cuts on a vacation in another country!
Also, rich people may invest, but they'll invest it once.
Poor people will spend. Then that money will be spent again, and again, and again. The money "bubbles up" to the top. "trickle down" economics, which is what you're describing, has been demonstrated time and time again to not work. The rich get richer, and the poor don't end up with much in the end.
edit: It doesn't matter anyway. We're just having the same argument that left-wing and right-wing economists have been having for decades. |
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| baystreetboi |
| If the rich weren't investing, the poor would be a hell of a lot worse off than they currently are! |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
The richer you are, the more likely that money is not going to be spent in Canada. |
Ask yourself why that's the case. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Ask yourself why that's the case. |
How many poor people take vacations in other countries? How many poor people have offshore investments? Percentage-wise, it's not nearly as much as the rich. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
How many poor people take vacations in other countries? How many poor people have offshore investments? Percentage-wise, it's not nearly as much as the rich. |
What I meant was, why don't those rich people invest in Canada? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
the way things are right now, I'm not sure if I'd rather just to be a caveman working 3 hours a day hunting and gathering, and just spending the rest of the day relaxing and enjoying life, rather than living a stressful north american lifestyle in a poisoned environment.
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Cavemen lived on average to about the age of 25. Enjoy the lifestyle! LOL |
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